Whitman/EPA and Why I'm Involved in a Class-Action Suit

[CuCullin]

http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...Id=46&id=47315

http://ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=56827

Some of you know I was a firefighter, and spent alot of time post-9/11 at Fresh Kills landfill. Those who were there are in a suit against the EPA and Whitman, because of the presence of asbestos and other materials harmful to us, and we were never told. I don't know how many firefighters, police, FBI, SS, etc, etc were there, but they basically put our lives in danger. My paperwork for involvement in the suit comes tomorrow, thought you guys might be interested in how little they give a crap about all of us.

[Smokes35]

Repeated exosure to asbestos is dangerous... not a few hours, not a few weeks.


While i do agree it was wrong to not inform you of the presence of it, do some research and you will see it takes REPEATED exposure to floating dust particles to have any adverse effects other than a few days of light congestion that would be experienced with exposure to dust. We just got sued by a widow of a3 pack a day smoker that died of lung cancer... she blammed it on the brake pads her husband changed for 40 years. Cant prove if it was the smoke or the brake pads... she won... which in my opinion wasnt rght.

[CuCullin]

Originally Posted by Smokes35

Repeated exosure to asbestos is dangerous... not a few hours, not a few weeks.


While i do agree it was wrong to not inform you of the presence of it, do some research and you will see it takes REPEATED exposure to floating dust particles to have any adverse effects other than a few days of light congestion that would be experienced with exposure to dust. We just got sued by a widow of a3 pack a day smoker that died of lung cancer... she blammed it on the brake pads her husband changed for 40 years. Cant prove if it was the smoke or the brake pads... she won... which in my opinion wasnt rght.

We were exposed to asbestos, dioxins, PCBs, and heavy metals.

It was also over a period of several months, not a few weeks. And just to let you know, theres a number of firefighters out there who suffer from debilitating respiratory problems, being called "ground zero syndrome".

So, imho, the lawsuit is the least we should be doing.

[High_Revs_17]

It's horrible what happened to these guys after everything they did to help...but being an experienced firefighter weren't you/they trained in protecting the respiratory system with filtration masks? One would expect those toxins to be present in a structure that was built in the early 70's.

[CuCullin]

Originally Posted by High_Revs_17

It's horrible what happened to these guys after everything they did to help...but being an experienced firefighter weren't you/they trained in protecting the respiratory system with filtration masks? One would expect those toxins to be present in a structure that was built in the early 70's.

We had masks, but only for 3 days - then there were no more filters. By that point, we were given the all clear. Some only wore them for a day, because it was already told to us that all was well. I held onto mine (being a paranoid fucker), and a few replacement filters, but that still only laster a few days (once out the pack, they had a limited time that they were effective). Considering we were there anywhere from 6-12 hours a day, going on air wasn't feasible.

[Mack]

being someone in the environmental field and currently getting a masters in biogeochemistry I hate to say it but the lawsuit is bullshit. Abestos as stated above takes large concentrations over a long period of time (decades not month) to have any major effect. The ground zero health problems are primirily due to particulate matter not VOC or semiVOC which can be effectively filtered with the 99 cent dust masks sold at any local hardware store. Dioxins. I would love to see the data pertaining to the levels of exposure compared to the OSHA time weight averages of exposure. Sorry but it's just another lawyer taking advantage of our sue happy society. Great your a firefighter I respect that but the fact is class actions suits give little money to the people they are for. They actually cost the working class in the long run because it either puts companies out of business or just raises costs on everyday items. It's like car insurance. If every jackass didn't sue anytime they got bumped we wouldn't be paying such outragous sums. I think next time you go into a burning building you should trip and fall and get hurt...then you can sue the building owner because there was a fire and you got hurt because of it.........YES I AM AN ASSHOLE

[CuCullin]

Originally Posted by Mack

being someone in the environmental field and currently getting a masters in biogeochemistry I hate to say it but the lawsuit is bullshit.

Ahh... still in school, and already you are an expert? Lets look at this for a minute.

Originally Posted by Mack

Abestos as stated above takes large concentrations over a long period of time (decades not month) to have any major effect.

Asbestosis is not the only issue at hand. Mesothelioma, which occurs in the chest and abdominal cavities, is an aggressive disease with malignant cells derived from the mesothelium, a tissue found on the inner walls of the chest and abdominal cavities and on the outer surface of the lungs.

Many epidemiologists believe there is no risk threshold, and only minor exposure over a brief period can cause mesothelioma. Also, as noted on the National Cancer Institute website, prolonged exposure is a greater risk, but even brief encounters can cause asbestos related diseases.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f.../Risk/asbestos

Aside from asbestosis and mesothelioma, asbestos is carcinogenic, and can cause lung cancer and gastrointestinal cancer. Asbestos has a synergistic effect with smoke inhalation, a risk firefighters face regularly.

So in short, you may wish to do a bit more research here.

Originally Posted by Mack

The ground zero health problems are primirily due to particulate matter not VOC or semiVOC which can be effectively filtered with the 99 cent dust masks sold at any local hardware store.

Polychlorinated biphenyls, not general volatile organic compounds. I was a bit more specific than that. Now, why don't you read what I said regarding masks.

If you remember anything about the duct tape & plastic fiasco, you might realize that perhaps there weren't many masks available at the time...

And of course, I was at Fresh Kills landfill, not shopping around at a hardware store. Since I was passed out the moment I got home, the same for so many others, we didn't exactly have time to go shopping.

Moving on...

Originally Posted by Mack

Dioxins. I would love to see the data pertaining to the levels of exposure compared to the OSHA time weight averages of exposure.

Claimed in 2001 (ie, the lie): 0.1 f/cc, 8-hour time weighted average.

As was later released, the number was closer to between 200 and 1500 times that amount.

Dioxins can cause developmental abnormalities in the enamel of teeth, immune-system damage, endometriosis, birth defects, diabetes, and increased risk of liver and lung cancer. The effects of dioxins are cumulative, so repetitive minor exposure causes major health risks.

Originally Posted by Mack

Sorry but it's just another lawyer taking advantage of our sue happy society. Great your a firefighter I respect that but the fact is class actions suits give little money to the people they are for. They actually cost the working class in the long run because it either puts companies out of business or just raises costs on everyday items. It's like car insurance. If every jackass didn't sue anytime they got bumped we wouldn't be paying such outragous sums.

Except the lawsuit isn't about the money, its (for me) more about trying to get at those responsible for not informing us of the levels and the risk, and flat out lying instead. You think I give a shit about the money? I want to know this won't happen again, or worse, happen again and be much more dangerous conditions.

Originally Posted by Mack

I think next time you go into a burning building you should trip and fall and get hurt...then you can sue the building owner because there was a fire and you got hurt because of it.........YES I AM AN ASSHOLE

I probably shouldn't have bothered replying. Reading this, its obvious that you're not an asshole, you're just a fucking idiot.

I'd recommend a few more classes before you start giving out more "expert" advice, being that you're "in the environmental field" and all.

[Mack]

First off how many Hazwaste site do you work on a week. Me about 5. So I think I know a little about the regs on PCBs, Dioxines, VOC, SVOCs and metal. Second yes I am an expert in my current research. I'm 1 of approximately 1000 people world wide working on the topic making me an expert in current findings.

I'm not going to get into a fight here but just answer me these few things:

How did you become exposed to Dioxins?
(they are not longer in use in the US and were primarily created during Nam while making herbicides and most of that is in the Newark Bay....So were you eating fish from the Bay? THe only dioxins at freshkills have been taken there as part of a remediation stragety known as solidification)

You were a firefighter...why not anymore?

Additionally...weren't you trained to deal with Hazardous operations?

Did you actually see test results to show you the levels of toxins or did you just trust the guy smoking a pack a day to tell you it's ok?

Did you not choose the job knowing the risk?

Finally, PCBs are primarily a threat to children and pregnant women and are primarily comsumed through water and fish....are you a child or a pregnant women? and once again were you eating fish will working on the Freshkills Landfill?

Oh I forgot I'm just a fucking idiot.

[CuCullin]

Originally Posted by Mack

First off how many Hazwaste site do you work on a week. Me about 5. So I think I know a little about the regs on PCBs, Dioxines, VOC, SVOCs and metal. Second yes I am an expert in my current research. I'm 1 of approximately 1000 people world wide working on the topic making me an expert in current findings.

Then your answers should be more accurate. I notice you didn't debate me on the facts I posted above.

Originally Posted by Mack

I'm not going to get into a fight here but just answer me these few things: How did you become exposed to Dioxins?

Well since its kind of hard to tell what object dust used to be, so your guess is as good as mine. The fact is, the EPA's actual tests shows very high levels. Want more info? Ask the EPA, not me.

Originally Posted by Mack

You were a firefighter...why not anymore?

Time. I volunteered for 5 years, job changed from NJ to NYC, so I don't have the time anymore.

Originally Posted by Mack

Additionally...weren't you trained to deal with Hazardous operations?

It might help if you read what I say. Already answered.

Originally Posted by Mack

Did you actually see test results to show you the levels of toxins or did you just trust the guy smoking a pack a day to tell you it's ok?

Ahh... the guy smoking a pack a day. Needed to throw that in there... for what? To try and throw off the whole lung cancer issue? And we didn't get shown results. Noone did. Thus the lying. Are you following this at all? The EPA told us it was ok. Which is why the EPA is being sued.

Originally Posted by Mack

Did you not choose the job knowing the risk?

Calculated risks are always taken. In this case, IT WASN'T A MATTER OF SIMPLE RISK. We. Were. Lied. To. Please re-read that as many times as it could possibly take for that to be absorbed. Really. Its kind of important.

Originally Posted by Mack

Finally, PCBs are primarily a threat to children and pregnant women and are primarily comsumed through water and fish....are you a child or a pregnant women? and once again were you eating fish will working on the Freshkills Landfill?

So first its too little to have any effect, and now you want to make comments like "primarily a threat". If its primarily a threat, that means its a threat to others as well. It isn't about whether or not it was a problem, its that the problem was there and they said it wasn't Thats the whole big lie I talked about earlier. Read above if you still haven't figure that out yet.

Originally Posted by Mack

Oh I forgot I'm just a fucking idiot.

Based on that little dumb shit, should get your fucking ass beaten remark at the end of your last post, yes.