199,000 BTUs of hot water bliss - Sportbike Addicts

ffejtable · 01-19-2009, 11:45 PM

Well since we're posting some pics of home improvements....

Some background info first...

Started remodeling the main bathroom about 3 months ago.

After replacing the tub/shower hardware and putting in a new white tub to replace the old yellow one, I noticed the water was a bit orange... Figured it was just do to some of the new plumbing (which doesnt make much sense, in retrospect)

3 weeks ago GF complained about the water still being orange in the tub. Ok, so something else is up.. Must be the hot water heater.

1 week later (2 weeks ago)... No hot water. I had lost power the night before and thought it might have been something electrical (electronic igniter, perhaps). I don't get a chance to look at it until after work and then a devils game. When I do check it out, the basement floor is wet. ARGH, hot water heater has a leak.. Its 20 years old, time for a replacement.

I consider a tankless system at first, but pricing is $400 vs $1200. Buy a tank, get it home, have a friend come over to help install it, when he tells me I need "direct vent". The tank I bought has to get returned, and the tank I need is more like $800 and not very efficient. I should also be eligible for a $300 rebate from the state.

I go back to the original plan and get the tankless system recommended by Ralph (Navien CR-180A)... So when it breaks, I got somebody else to blame.

It takes a little longer to get hot water to the faucet, but once it starts flowing, it never stops!

For those of you that may have to replace a hot water tank in the future, consider a tankless system. There are some drawbacksof tankless systems but the Navien "A" series addresses many of those issue with the use of a buffer tank and recirculation pump.

**John712** · 01-20-2009, 12:28 AM

Here is where the 3 hour showers come in

RCM78 · 01-20-2009, 08:02 AM

I'm glad you like the heater. Dont call me when it breaks!!!

Nice to see you installed the isolation valves under the heater. They will come in handy. Figure on running vinegar through the system once a year.

Sue · 01-20-2009, 09:20 AM

Nice Jeff!! We went with the tankless too last year when we replaced our hot water heater. We love it and the gas bill is a little lower each month now.

ffejtable · 01-20-2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sue

Nice Jeff!! We went with the tankless too last year when we replaced our hot water heater. We love it and the gas bill is a little lower each month now.

If I save some money, that would be nice, but that really didnt play into my decision too much. Tankless just seems to be the way to go.. The rest of the world is using them, its just a matter of time they are mainstream here.

What unit (brand) did you wind up getting?

If anybody is considering one, I have a friend that helped me with my install that's looking for work.

FDNYDANO18 · 01-20-2009, 11:19 PM

I have indirect hot water with a stainless tank... super efficient ...

In the future I would consider a tankless setup if I'm building a house... it's just not practical to hide it behind where you use it in a renovation home most times .

Sue · 01-21-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffejtable

If I save some money, that would be nice, but that really didnt play into my decision too much. Tankless just seems to be the way to go.. The rest of the world is using them, its just a matter of time they are mainstream here.

What unit (brand) did you wind up getting?

If anybody is considering one, I have a friend that helped me with my install that's looking for work.

We got the Rinnai tankless. The savings wasn't part of our decision either but it's nice! We wanted the unit in the laundry room so this was the way to go for sure.

RCM78 · 01-21-2009, 11:28 AM

Rinnai is the leader in market share right now. But that Navien unit is NICE!!! PSE&G has started selling and installing the navien so they should catch up to the rinnai at least in jersey.

ffejtable · 01-21-2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

I have indirect hot water with a stainless tank... super efficient ...

In the future I would consider a tankless setup if I'm building a house... it's just not practical to hide it behind where you use it in a renovation home most times .

Not sure I know what you are getting at. The tankless system I have is essentially a direct replacement for a hot water tank and sits in the basement where the old tank once was. They do have small electric ones that get installed near point of use, but this is a whole house unit, not to mention 98% efficient

ffejtable · 01-21-2009, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCM78

Rinnai is the leader in market share right now. But that Navien unit is NICE!!! PSE&G has started selling and installing the navien so they should catch up to the rinnai at least in jersey.

Very good to know... That should make parts easier to come by, if I ever need them, and experienced service personnel.

Sue · 01-21-2009, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffejtable

Not sure I know what you are getting at. The tankless system I have is essentially a direct replacement for a hot water tank and sits in the basement where the old tank once was. They do have small electric ones that get installed near point of use, but this is a whole house unit, not to mention 98% efficient

Oops sorry Jeff... we have the whole house unit too.

What I meant was we just decided to have it installed in the laundry room above the washer and dryer rather than in the utility closet where the old hot water heater tank was. And yea the efficiency is great!

ffejtable · 01-21-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sue

Oops sorry Jeff... we have the whole house unit too.

What I meant was we just decided to have it installed in the laundry room above the washer and dryer rather than in the utility closet where the old hot water heater tank was. And yea the efficiency is great!

That was meant for Dano

Sorry I forgot to quote. Fixed

FDNYDANO18 · 01-21-2009, 04:37 PM

A whole house unit is less efficient than individual "location" units... thats because you have to run all the cold water out to the faucet... just like my system ,and a old style HWH for that matter. You dont have to store hot water with your system so it saves you money over an old style HWH. My system uses a coil from the boiler to heat the water in the heavily insulated stainless tank so the water thats stored stays hot longer with less effort than an old style HWH.

A location unit give "instant" hot water. In new construction,with the proper planning and budget,its the best thing. Thats all I was sayin.....

JimRBlue · 01-21-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDNYDANO18

A whole house unit is less efficient than individual "location" units... thats because you have to run all the cold water out to the faucet... just like my system ,and a old style HWH for that matter. You dont have to store hot water with your system so it saves you money over an old style HWH. My system uses a coil from the boiler to heat the water in the heavily insulated stainless tank so the water thats stored stays hot longer with less effort than an old style HWH.

A location unit give "instant" hot water. In new construction,with the proper planning and budget,its the best thing. Thats all I was sayin.....

I would agree, however going that route would only be realistic if you were going with electric hot water heaters. Electric already run to room with water is one thing.. having gas in every room is hardly ever the case.

Another option is having thermos mounted by each water source which can be assigned a temp and priority to each water area.. as in the picture. the little keypad controls the water temp. Additional units can also be linked to the heater as well.

RCM78 · 01-21-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDNYDANO18

A whole house unit is less efficient than individual "location" units... thats because you have to run all the cold water out to the faucet... just like my system ,and a old style HWH for that matter. You dont have to store hot water with your system so it saves you money over an old style HWH. My system uses a coil from the boiler to heat the water in the heavily insulated stainless tank so the water thats stored stays hot longer with less effort than an old style HWH.

A location unit give "instant" hot water. In new construction,with the proper planning and budget,its the best thing. Thats all I was sayin.....

The word efficiency is getting thrown around here alot. Dano, Your indirect system is only as efficient as your boiler (Probably 80%). Sue's Rinnai unit is also 80%. A typical 40-50 gallon gas fired water heater is about 70%. Jeff's Navien is 98% efficient.

What that means is it uses 98% of the heat produced by the gas to heat the water. Only 2% is expelled out the exhaust vent.
Efficiency has NOTHING to do with how much or how fast the unit makes hot water. You can just use a bigger heater to do the same job as a smaller more efficient model.

With that said, I prefer Dano's setup. Indirect water heaters and hot water boilers when designed properly are hard to beat. They are not subject to the flow restrictions that the tankless units are. They are capable of producing over 200 gallons of hot water an hour.

As for the cold water in the pipes. That can be solved with a recirculation pump. Jeff's Navien has one installed from the factory but a recirculation line needs to be hooked up for it to work. Dano, you could have one installed by a plumber and the wait for hot water would be significantly reduced.

Any electric heater is 100% efficient. There is no vent. But electricity takes a long time to heat water and is expensive.