Motorcycle Licensing - Sportbike Addicts

EvilSteve · 03-13-2007, 12:39 AM

Here's the email I sent to the AMA a little earlier:

________________________________________________
Hi,

I, like many motorcyclists, am becoming increasingly concerned with the pressure being put on the motorcycling community. It seems to me that if we don't change soon, then change will be forced on us. I'm wondering what the AMA is doing to improve licensing procedures?

I'm still shocked at how easy it is to get a license to ride a motorcycle when short of a helicopter it's one of the most difficult machines to master. I'd like to see some graduated system introduced that would put more emphasis on skills rather than knowing road rules. Any person wanting to buy a motorcycle with a power to weight ratio over X should require extra training. I think experts can come up with X. Of course anyone can get injured on any kind of bike (or car for that matter) but forcing people to take their bike seriously and actually learn how to use it as part of the licensing procedure seems like a no brainer to me. No one can tell me that the 6 questions I did on the "motorcycle" permit test really prepared me to go ride anything let alone my friend's modern 600cc sport bike I practiced on. Nor can anyone convince me that a person with a learner's permit should be able to buy a Hayabusa and legally ride with his or her buddies.

I don't think the draconian system they have in the UK is a good option, let alone the craziness going on in France. But Australia (where I'm from) seems to have a better balanced system.

I'd like to see a responsible licensing system introduced at the federal level in the US that forces riders to learn how to ride before they go out on the street. Even mandating the MSF course would be a great first step. I haven't seen anything mentioned about this path by the AMA. It's not enough to point the finger at unjust laws and inequitable practices towards motorcyclists. We need to take ourselves seriously before anyone else will. We need to fix what's broken in our own back yard.

I look forward to your reply.

Regards,
~~~~~~
__________________________________________________ ______

I suggest everyone send something similar to the AMA, feel free to copy my email and use it.

Lucky7 · 03-13-2007, 08:15 AM

Well done. Keep us posted on the reply.

TomMatas3 · 03-13-2007, 08:22 AM

cheers mate.. sombody has got to take responsibility for those who can't make a responsible decision themselves.

Katanardr · 03-13-2007, 08:26 AM

Nicely done... Hopefully they reply

soda7o · 03-13-2007, 10:07 AM

you have alot of free time on your hands...

CBRBob · 03-13-2007, 10:28 AM

Mandating the MSF class dosn't work, it only clogs up the class with bozos who are 'just there for the license' and who don't actually care to learn. Having a tiered license, that works!

Lucky7 · 03-13-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soda7o

you have alot of free time on your hands...

It takes Dan quicker to type e-mails since he doesn't have to spell check the whole thing.

CBRBob · 03-13-2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky7

It takes Dan quicker to type e-mails since he doesn't have to spell check the whole thing.

Soda dosen't either

Lucky7 · 03-13-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRBob

Mandating the MSF class dosn't work, it only clogs up the class with bozos who are 'just there for the license' and who don't actually care to learn. Having a tiered license, that works!

Tiered licensing and better rider education. I'd rather the feds intitute that rather than go the way of the French which is to restrict HP and institute stiff fines and jail time for bikes powered over 100hp.

EvilSteve · 03-13-2007, 11:33 AM

I'm not suggesting we get 250 people in an MSF course Rob. I'm suggesting that that training be given to everyone and be a prerequisite to getting a license. All the people that are just there to get their license and don't care to learn wouldn't pass and would be booted from the class. MSF courses would be more frequent, and would have (more?) government funding.

As for having a lot of time on my hands, I don't call 5 or 10 minutes to type up an email a lot of time.

SPL170db · 03-13-2007, 11:35 AM

Good intentions, but writing the AMA won't make anything happen.

It's the DMV that has to be influenced. Shit, the AMA thinks that helmet laws should be made voluntary for crying out loud, that's real responsible.

EvilSteve · 03-13-2007, 11:51 AM

Having non-motorcyclists draft laws results in shitty laws IMO. The AMA may be misguided but they're more likely to pay attention to an issue like this than the DMV. Since when does the AMA want helmet laws to be voluntary? That's retarded.

CBRBob · 03-13-2007, 11:57 AM

250 in a course is not what i am talking about. You make a law and mandate that the class be taken, it floods with people. Right now, people who WANT to learn take the class. The frequency and availabilty is not the answer. Right now, signups are s-l-o-w for MSF classes across the board. The state puts on about 44 classes per year, other providers put on about that as well. RENJ can put on 16 classes per weekend at this point.
Problem is people decide in March they want to ride. The people who REALLY wanted to learn signed up in Jan. So people call, find they are booked into June and have NO PATIENCE. So they get a bike and before you know about it, we are reading about them in the paper or on the internet. People who WANT to learn, will. Impulsive riders don't learn, they get killed.
We don't need MORE laws from the feds or the state. We need people who will 'do the right thing', take a class and ride responsibly. That means YOU as well as MSF coaches have to guide new riders. DON'T encourage them to buy a hot new sportbike. Don't encourage them to just wear a t-shirt or ride really fast. Encourage helmet use, regardless of a helmet law we don't need.

In NJ, there is very little government funding for classes. The $ that is collected from license renewals is VOLUNTARY. We as motorcyclists put it there ourselves for EVERYONE. The money is meant to reduce the cost of the course for EVERYONE, not give a small amount a free class and then shut the doors because you run out of money. Kind of like what happens in Canada with their govt. funded healthcare. Hospitals CLOSE mid-December because of budget overruns!
So keep the govt. OUT of it as much as possible. Tiered licensing and SELF-policing will keep us safer.

***Cakes206*** · 03-13-2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRBob

We don't need MORE laws from the feds or the state. We need people who will 'do the right thing', take a class and ride responsibly. That means YOU as well as MSF coaches have to guide new riders. DON'T encourage them to buy a hot new sportbike. Don't encourage them to just wear a t-shirt or ride really fast. Encourage helmet use, regardless of a helmet law we don't need.

We all know this is always going to happen though. Places like Australia I think have the right idea to where they almost seem to "groom" riders so to speak. With the law in place, the rider has no choice but to follow the steps in process no matter how bad they may want that Busa at 18. But we all know that it just won't fly here in America, where its buy buy buy no matter if it gets you put in debt / bankrupt / or killed, gotta make that money.

EvilSteve · 03-13-2007, 12:29 PM

What do you think tiered licensing is? That's "government intervention" right there. I'm sorry dude but your argument makes no sense. People that don't want to learn shouldn't have to? That's the whole point, people that want to ride have to learn. Otherwise, like you said, they're going to get into trouble. When they get into trouble it effects *all* of us, insurance rates, media coverage, stupid laws being introduced, etc. The people that you're saying won't have patience are people that are willing to break the law and ride without a license, that's on them, there's nothing that can be done for people that really don't want to help themselves. What I'm saying is that the ridiculous licensing they have now should be scrapped. They should divert money going into DMV programs for motorcycle licensing to MSF based training, thereby increasing MSF capacity and reducing the wait time (I got my license from the DMV but still did MSF) and therefore making it actually practical to get a license in that manner. You're also not offering any solutions, just saying tiered licensing doesn't achieve anything. What structure would it have? On what basis would I be able to get a A class license or what ever it is? I'm suggesting that, at a minimum, people who want to get a bike license should have to get the MSF course. If people want to get crazy powerful bikes then there should be some more in depth training. The people who just go ride anyway, will do exactly that, just go anyway so it doesn't matter what licensing scheme they have in place in those cases, those people will do whatever.

The fact of the matter is that there are more laws every year, the more that motorcyclists are *perceived* to be causing a problem, the more likely it is that we're not going to have *any* freedom to ride in future. Sitting around bemoaning big government isn't going to help us or help anyone who wants to start riding. It's blatantly obvious to me that it doesn't work and just about every other modern country in the world has more licensing controls and helmet laws and all the things that people here go on about being an invasion of their rights.

I see better training for motorcyclists as a preventative measure to stop all sorts of other stupid laws being introduced to "protect" us. People don't see us as squids and motocyclists, we're all just motorcyclists that means the dumb stuff that all the squids do reflects on all of us and when laws are introduced they apply to all motorcyclists, not just new riders or whatever. Tiered licensing would change this but letting the current system continue as the minimum level doesn't actually resolve any of these issues IMO.