new springs and valves?

[ronin_01r1]

so i'm thinking about getting new springs for my forks and rear. i had defan tune my suspension last time i was at beaver. i would've gone up to wcw but i just didn't have time to make the 2.5 hr trek up there from my house in south bumble fack jersey. anyways, defan tells me that i should consider getting my springs and valves done because my current setup is as good as it's gonna get. i dunno, it seemed ok to me.

honestly, i'm not sure i noticed much of a difference even after he did his thing with my bike. the suspension was previously tuned by wcw about 1 year prior. that time, i noticed a big difference, esp while cornering. so defan recommends new springs and valves which will cost me about 600.

but, i've got a local friend who's says he'll put on new racetech front springs and rear shock for 300 total, including all labor. seems like a great deal to me, but i wonder if i really need it. how do i know for sure? what are the signs for doing something like this upgrade?

i don't doubt that either of these mods will improve my bike's handling, but will it be so much that i'll notice a difference?

what are some signs i should be noticing to know i should seriously consider new springs or new springs/valves?

if it's not going to make much difference, i'd rather spend that 300 on a couple more trackdays or a new set of tires, which i'm going to need soon.

hopefully some of you experienced track junkies can help me clear some of this up. help!!!

[Kennedy]

Well the way I see it....I made it into blue group on fucked up stock suspension I'm running decent times and I know where time can still be made up....when I start bottoming out my stuff or for example like what happened to me last week a pocono where I went out of 2 and off camber and my rear tire skipped and never absorbed the bump and then I spun up the rear. That is an obvious sign you need a new rear shock.

I'm not to expierenced in the suspension area because I can't afford it but I wish I could. Alot of people will tell you different things (basically people who are trying to sell you stuff) but listen to the guys on this board cause they know what they are talking about.

[RCM78]

What year R1 do you have and what do you weigh?
Ron probably got the bike dialed in pretty good so there wasnt much Dafan could do to improve it with the stock stuff.

If your bottoming out the front end and or feeling chatter either under braking or in the corners your exeeding the front forks.

If the rear squat's real bad or your spinning up the rear alot you could use a shock.

How does the bike feel in a corner? Is is stable? Or does it wallow around?

[CBRBob]

Here is my view of it. If your car rides like crap, you change something, usually shocks. Your bike is very light and when you get on it, it changes the total weight by a lot. Bikes are sprung to cover 90% of people riding them. That means it's they are set up to ride on the street for basically the widest range of riders. That means it is not set up to ride on the track at the upper end of its performance envelope for anyone.

Magazine settings are good for that bike at that track for that rider. Just springing the bike is a 1st step, If you are going that far you might as well do the whole job.

A bike with correct suspension will move around LESS. The reaction of that is that the bike FEELS SLOWER. So what would your reaction be? RIDE FASTER!

[Cakes206]

Originally Posted by RCM78

If your bottoming out the front end

Hey Song, to test this, you can put a zip tie on one of the forks. Come in after a session and see how far the zip tie traveled.

[Commuta_Busa]

also mesure your sag all geared up... can you get it in the right range? Playing around with your suspension can make a very noticable improvement. Make sure you record each and every change and what the results were... you'll start seeing a pattern and you'll have a better grasp on how it all works together.

Originally Posted by Cakes982

Hey Song, to test this, you can put a zip tie on one of the forks. Come in after a session and see how far the zip tie traveled.

[ronin_01r1]

Originally Posted by RCM78

What year R1 do you have and what do you weigh?
Ron probably got the bike dialed in pretty good so there wasnt much Dafan could do to improve it with the stock stuff.

If your bottoming out the front end and or feeling chatter either under braking or in the corners your exeeding the front forks.

If the rear squat's real bad or your spinning up the rear alot you could use a shock.

How does the bike feel in a corner? Is is stable? Or does it wallow around?

2001. weight 190.

i don't think i'm bottoming out the front. i think the only chatter i've really noticed was coming out of turn 8 at beaver with a lot of gas but i figured it was just some bumps on the pavement. i haven't spun the rear tire at all. the bike feels stable in the corners.

maybe i should have a more experienced rider about my weight take a test ride?

Originally Posted by Cakes982

Hey Song, to test this, you can put a zip tie on one of the forks. Come in after a session and see how far the zip tie traveled.

yup, i got that suggestion from a friend too. i'll try it next trackday.



i'll hold off on the suspension until i am more sure about it. thanks guys. more money for trackdays.

[Cakes206]

Originally Posted by ronin_01r1

i think the only chatter i've really noticed was coming out of turn 8 at beaver with a lot of gas but i figured it was just some bumps on the pavement.

Yup, track is getting real bumpy there.

[njracer]

A proper suspension is the best money you can spend on your bike. Get a quality shock (Ohlins/Penske) and have a suspention tuner (not a friend) set up your forks. When I say set up your forks, I mean you should have new springs, valves (Ohlins/Penske/Traxxion) or even a drop in cartridge installed.

If you ride Summit Point often, CTR and Thermosman will be your best bet and prices will be very close.

[John712]

for 300..? do it. i paid 1200 to do mine lol

[bondo]

Hey, Song...

If you have the sag set 5-10 mm tighter then recommended street settings with you on it (typically good for the track) and you still have proper static sag... (it sags 5 mm or so by itself) then the spring rates are fine.

Fluid weight and level can effect bottoming, too... which is part of what the zip-tie on a fork tube will show you.
I've revalved my own forks, shocks, etc a bunch of times over the years on offroad bikes. There's nothing magic in there. $1200 is highway robbery (unless you are replacing with penske/ohlins/etc )

Dafan helped me relate offroad tuning to track tuning. Had a good conversation with him at Beaver.


If you are on a budget, a 2001 bike with the factory fluid in the forks will improve with a simple fluid change. Same with the shock.

Make your changes at the track so you can see the difference.
Properly adjusted and serviced stock suspension will work better then the BEST improperly adjusted components.

[SPL170db]

Changing out spring for the forks and shock is a pretty easy task that most mechanically skilled people should be able to handle.

Getting the forks and shock revalved is something that should probably be left up to a professional. Racetech sells those do it yourself Goldvalve kits but they are crap.


Send you forks and shock to Lindeman or Thermosman and they will revalve for you for about $600 each end.

http://www.le-suspension.com/
http://www.thermosman.com/

Next step up the foodchain would be to ditch your stock shock for something like a Penske or Ohlins which will run you anywhere from about $700-1500, and also replacing your fork internals for a set of Traxxion AK20 or Ohlins cartrdges, that will run you from about $1000-1500

[ronin_01r1]

thanks for the advice guys!!