Inside Passing

[CBRBob]

I posted this on the TPM board. It explains why not to pass in groups that don't allow it.

http://shopphilly.com/teampromotion/newforum/viewtopic.php?p=30564#30564

or..........


The rules for passing are on pages 5 and 6 of this document, please read.
http://www.teampromotion.com/media/trackbasics.pdf

If you still can't figure out what that means, here is perhaps the most famous INSIDE PASS on video. It is what can happen if you DON'T understand why you SHOULDN'T inside-pass in a group that DOES NOT ALLOW inside passing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FUWo86nFE90

[Smokes35]

Ill pass you whenever, whereever, and how the fuck ever i want...



and then i woke up.

[SPRHK]

was this thread provoked by someones mental lapse of judgement???:moocow:

[Cakes206]

was this thread provoked by someones mental lapse of judgement???:moocow:
VIR Memorial Day w/e w/TPM brought out a lot of knuckleheads. Mostly new faces as well.

[BurnCycle]

I pass on the inside when it can be done safely. :P

[CBRBob]

I pass on the inside when it can be done safely. :P

Bern, you are in Blue group, correct? In Blue, the rules allow inside passing when safe. So when it is expected, it's fine.

When in White and Red it's not allowed and you don't expect it and it happens, it's very dangerous and pisses people off.

[John712]

I know it's not allowed in White and Red. But I think I heard a few times that if you have no choice to pass inside, by all means do it, but do it safely.

Can this be clearified.?

[CBRBob]

I know it's not allowed in White and Red. But I think I heard a few times that if you have no choice to pass inside, by all means do it, but do it safely.
Can this be clarified.?

Easy..... "if you have no choice to pass inside, by all means do it" is a cop out. Basically what you are saying is, if you screwed up, cant read traffic correctly, got yourself in a situation that you cant handle and the only way out is to make an pass that is against the class rules, go ahead and do it.

That kind of mind-set will keep you in that group and not advance. I have evaluated countless riders that wanted to be moved up and done exactly what you described. As soon as that happens, I pass them, give them a thumbs-down and take off.

Of course if people in front of you do a bonehead move and you absoloutely must, its fine. the bonehead will get the talking to. If you are coming up on someone 30mph faster and just make a charge to pass at the last sec because you judged improperly, then you are the bonehead.

[Ant]

Easy..... "if you have no choice to pass inside, by all means do it" is a cop out. Basically what you are saying is, if you screwed up, cant read traffic correctly, got yourself in a situation that you cant handle and the only way out is to make an pass that is against the class rules, go ahead and do it.

That kind of mind-set will keep you in that group and not advance. I have evaluated countless riders that wanted to be moved up and done exactly what you described. As soon as that happens, I pass them, give them a thumbs-down and take off.

Of course if people in front of you do a bonehead move and you absoloutely must, its fine. the bonehead will get the talking to. If you are coming up on someone 30mph faster and just make a charge to pass at the last sec because you judged improperly, then you are the bonehead.

I used to disagree with this to be honest. But then over Memorial Day weekend at summit I actually ran some decent time in Red group. It's called patience and understanding your environment to keep your speed up safely. I guess that's what getting older does to you. lol

[BurnCycle]

Busted... :P

Easy..... "if you have no choice to pass inside, by all means do it" is a cop out. Basically what you are saying is, if you screwed up, cant read traffic correctly, got yourself in a situation that you cant handle and the only way out is to make an pass that is against the class rules, go ahead and do it.

That kind of mind-set will keep you in that group and not advance. I have evaluated countless riders that wanted to be moved up and done exactly what you described. As soon as that happens, I pass them, give them a thumbs-down and take off.

Of course if people in front of you do a bonehead move and you absoloutely must, its fine. the bonehead will get the talking to. If you are coming up on someone 30mph faster and just make a charge to pass at the last sec because you judged improperly, then you are the bonehead.

I can't agree with this enough. I've been the bonehead, I made some dumb mistakes but I learned to readdress what I was doing and how I was doing it. I believe this is why I am in Blue now, I didn't ask for the bump, I was invited to move up by a coach who had been following me around Shenandoah. :)

[ffejtable]

There is no excuse to inside pass, period, you should know well in advance if you are going to be able to get a clear pass in on somebody before the turn in cone. And if you dont know, or arent sure, then your riding skills arent good enough to make the judgement and you should ALWAYS error on the side of caution, not wreckless abandon, which I see all too often out there.

The guy you might be inside passing could be out there on his first non ART basic day and an inside pass could really spook the guy out causing him to straighten up and take a detour, potentially ruining his day, or worse. We (Doug and I) gave TPM a really hard time about letting coaches inside pass on white group 2 years ago at VIR memorial day weekend and the rules eventually changed.

I have no doubt that the coaches riding ability is far superior than that of any white group rider, and that they are completely capable of doing safe inside passes. The problem is that some white group riders may not respond well to it. In Red group I think coaches (and ONLY the coaches) should be allowed, so potential blue group riders know what to expect.

Anyhow, back to the original point, if you cant make a clean pass, or dont know if you can make a clean pass before the turn in cone, you shouldnt even be attempting it, and in the event you dont complete the pass you better be prepared to give the other rider the right of way. Your second option is always to give the right away, not to pass anyway, and thats something you need to factor into your passing attempt.

[CBRBob]

Jeff, the rules never changed. Coaches are allowed to pass when/wherever they want, inside if ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. I guess some were just out there blasting around, inside passed you for no reason.

[Smokes35]

I've decided to only pass on straights while whoolie'n!!!!

[Kennedy]

In all of my track days I never once felt the need to inside pass someone because I was coming on to fast. I have though had my front tire lined up on the inside of their rear coming into a turn but stayed on the brakes all the way until they made their turn in so I can begin mine. Did my pace and flow get messed up? Hell yes, but I avoided a potential accident and disrespect of another rider my sacrificing my ego for BOTH of our safety.

One big thing you must learn when advancing into the ranks is that patience really is the big secret to this whole game. It took my 6 days to get into red group, and only one day to get into blue. Why? Not because I couldn't get on pace but because I was not consistant with my passing and I could not flow through traffic. If I cannot avoid slower riders at a slower pace what happens trying to avoid slower riders at a faster pace? Disaster!

The passing rules are not only set for everyones safety but they are also set for the purpose of making you grow as a wholesome all around rider. It doesn't take much to sloppily fly into a turn on the inside of someone and stuff them then grab a handful of brake and run wide in a turn.

It takes true skill to watch the rider in front of you like a prey and watch them as if you were stalking them. You find their weakness on the track and go in for the kill on the harder pass, an outside pass. Tony Brazley speny 4 days going over this with me and I finally got it. Thats when he felt I was ready for red (also after I purposely stopped wheeling down the hill at VIR south) and I am ever so glad I was not bumped into red to soon because I would have regreted it.


I am grateful for the passing rules and stand behind every aspect of them.

[NYCSTRIPES]

I took the gentleman's way out and lowsided my bike all by myself at turn #4 at VIR. No additional drama required....

Ken

[Kennedy]

I took the gentleman's way out and lowsided my bike all by myself at turn #4 at VIR. No additional drama required....

Ken

You must have been lonely :moocow:

:lol:

[CBRBob]

He wanted to spend more time with Meatball.

[NYCSTRIPES]

Meatball says he can fix it...
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/nycstripes/MEATBALL/tpromo0507-00002.jpg

[JimRBlue]

Mike should read this thread.....
:doh:

[ffejtable]

Jeff, the rules never changed. Coaches are allowed to pass when/wherever they want, inside if ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. I guess some were just out there blasting around, inside passed you for no reason.

I don't know, this particular coach, said that coaches were allowed to do it, and made no mention that is was only acceptable when absolutely neccessary, which is quite different than what I am hearing now. I believe we were even talking to other coaches about it at the time... That was 2+ years ago and I cant recall who else we spoke with, maybe even you! :)

[CBRBob]

I know who you were talking to, I was there when you were taking to him. Don't worry, the rules haven't changed.