property NOT for sale.

[John712]

how can one go about buying property thats not for sale.? it's vacant, and has been vacant for about 2 years or so. i didnt really inquire to much about it although i know the mayor and the tree shade commisioner who is the mayors father in this town. i asked about it and he said its not for sale because the entire place is contaminated. not sure how bad or what type of contamination it is.

what i plan on doing and type of establishment im going to make it, means a total make over, gut the entire place and redo the entire outside and inside. which means i would have to bring in an contamination crew i would think. i dont want to dishout more then i would like to BEFORE remodeling the place.

should i steer away from it.? or see if i could get the place at a better deal being its contaminated then if it werent.? this place belongs to the town, not individually owned. he told me i could get the old A&P building on westfield ave, but its way to big for what i am going to do. although it would be better for business but then again its a lot more $$$$.

stuck up in the air about it, been thinking about it for days and days. i will also be creating a lot of jobs aswell. different positions. im really leaning towards it more then i was thinking about it last year.

and its time to bring my plans to reality.

[jcblitz]

I was wondering the same thing. There is this house near me that's been empty for at least a year that I know of, and it looks like a lot longer. I'd be interested in buying it even if I have to knock down the actual unit. Anyone know about this type of stuff?

[John712]

i know real estate attorneys can gather this information in just a few hours, but then again they charge high fees to gather that information. im trying to get it for a fee to as minimum or free if possible

[pillaka]

I am pretty sure you got some soil that is contaminated. Basically you would have to contract out a firm to do soil/environment testing on the site to determine the location and severity of it. Get ready to spend some $$$ for this. OK so the soil is contaminated, now you want to build something there. That soil is going to have to be removed to a certain depth. (think 5') Either it's stockpiled in a special way on the site, or moved to a different location. This is going to cost add'l $$$ in excavation fees and possible trucking fees. On top of this what you excavated has to be replaced, which means you're going to pay more $$$ in trucking fees to bring fill to the site. Most often suitable fill is scored from a nearby excavation project,. just make sure the soil you're going to use for fill isn't contaminated itself! I don't know the exact pricing for everything, depends on the size of the site. Is the site clear? Or are there existing structures on it? What's the acreage? I can ask some people at work, but it won't till the next few says since I will be out getting surgery on my thumb tomorrow.

[soda7o]

some times whe it is condemend you have to totaly level it and start form scratch..
i had a house in my are get condemmed .. i foudn out about they still wanted a shit load of loot for it.. .but youcouldnt do anythign untill you total tear it down.. foundation and all and start from scratch.. i think was rodent infested or soemthing ( a giant rat nest)
anyway
go get the plot number and/ or lot number form a tax map.. shoudl be fairly easy to do.. than find the owner and contact him her... also go to the town and find out whyit is condmend and what are the requirments to use thatland/ structure again..

[JHuff1219]

First stop you need to make is the County Court House for a records search on the present owner. If said parcel is owned privately contact that individual to gauge their interest in selling. If said parcel is owned by a company/municipality you will need to do some more research via internet regarding what department or official to contact regarding their interest in selling. Public records searches are free unless you wish to make copies of deeds, mortgages, etc. Which brings up another point. If you cannot find the owner, find the lender holding the note on said parcel. Once you find a contact person and if they are willing to sell, you'll need to find out if they have performed a Transactional Screening or Phase I on the property.

A Transactional Screening is the lowest cost approach ($500-$800) to explore the potential environmental concerns on the property, as well as any surrounding properties. Trust me, you do not want a property down hill from a dry cleaner or any underground storage tanks and those contaminated properties can be upwards of a mile or so away and still affect the parcel you are interested in purchasing. This approach researches the history of the parcel you are looking to purchase and goes back 100+ years, if records are available. It alerts you of any potential concerns on any surrounding properties and gives specifics areas of concern (Asbestos, Underground Storage Tanks, Gas/Oil Spills, Dry Cleaning establishments, etc.)

A Phase I report does all of the afore-mentioned research but goes considerably farther with actual soil samples, ground water testing, etc. but the cost is also considerably higher ($2,500-$5,000).

If you would like some recommendations on who to use, e-mail me jhufford@newcenturybank.com and I can give you some reputable folks who will guide you through the process. My intent is not to discourage you but to arm you with options for a more informed decision. Many, many contaminated sites can me remediated to a certain level and used for all sorts of applications. I just recently had involvement with one brownfield (term for extensive environmentally damaged property) which was remediated with EPA and DEP approvals, then converted into a shopping center and auto-wash.

Sorry for the length of this response but there's no easy response to environmental questions. :)

[Cakes206]

Some great info there.

[soda7o]

that is osme good info by jhuff

[JHuff1219]

Thanks fellas. Can you tell I dabble in real estate?!?! ;)

[liquiddevil2000]

wow.. that was some good info!!!!!

[Redlinerider]

how can one go about buying property thats not for sale.? it's vacant, and has been vacant for about 2 years or so. i didnt really inquire to much about it although i know the mayor and the tree shade commisioner who is the mayors father in this town. i asked about it and he said its not for sale because the entire place is contaminated. not sure how bad or what type of contamination it is.

what i plan on doing and type of establishment im going to make it, means a total make over, gut the entire place and redo the entire outside and inside. which means i would have to bring in an contamination crew i would think. i dont want to dishout more then i would like to BEFORE remodeling the place.

should i steer away from it.? or see if i could get the place at a better deal being its contaminated then if it werent.? this place belongs to the town, not individually owned. he told me i could get the old A&P building on westfield ave, but its way to big for what i am going to do. although it would be better for business but then again its a lot more $$$$.

stuck up in the air about it, been thinking about it for days and days. i will also be creating a lot of jobs aswell. different positions. im really leaning towards it more then i was thinking about it last year.

and its time to bring my plans to reality.


and i bet you have been sending a meter reading for that house too, so who ever buys that house has a nice bill waiting for! .

[Rev]

This can be more of a headache then a blessing, be careful. If you need loan information and want to start building let me know. I'm a broker and I deal with 30+ lenders ranging from residential to business...

[John712]

well i found out who the owner is and when the property was bought.

it was bought September of 2003 by non other then the same company i work for :D they were going to have trucks there from the elizabeth area from what i was told. but the township denied it saying its not a nice look or some shit like that. so it just been sitting there since.

i also found out the contimination issue. its because of the laundrymat.

Laundrymat on the left and Jack Tavern on the right, SAME BUILDING though.

i'll have to take pictures of it and post them up.

but my question is this. if its contiminated in such a way, why is the small diner still open thats like 50 feet away to the right.? i'll take pictures tomorrow of the entire surrounds and post them.

[Redlinerider]

why is the small diner still open thats like 50 feet away to the right.?.

it akways makes you think doesnt it??!! it happens alot more then we know my friend.

[JHuff1219]

well i found out who the owner is and when the property was bought.

it was bought September of 2003 by non other then the same company i work for :D they were going to have trucks there from the elizabeth area from what i was told. but the township denied it saying its not a nice look or some shit like that. so it just been sitting there since.

i also found out the contimination issue. its because of the laundrymat.

Laundrymat on the left and Jack Tavern on the right, SAME BUILDING though.

i'll have to take pictures of it and post them up.

but my question is this. if its contiminated in such a way, why is the small diner still open thats like 50 feet away to the right.? i'll take pictures tomorrow of the entire surrounds and post them.


My guess is the contamination is sub-surface and the diner is serviced by public water and sewer, so unless you are eating off the dirt (which would mean you have more serious problems) the contamination poses minimal danger to the public. I think I mentioned before that just b/c a property is contaminated doesn't mean the property can't be built upon or is without value. The EPA and DEP allow different levels and types of contamination depending on the end use for the property. Trust me, there are places in the Philadelphia area that you would be scared stiff if you knew what was lerking underground. There are many, many subdivisions which have been built upon old orchards which before the 70's used heavy doses of arsenic to control pests. That crap NEVER leaves the soil and NEVER degrades. However, if the subdivision is fed by public water and sewer the DEP and EPA only require that certain "hot" areas (sections of the property which show elevated levels of arsenic) be remediated which, in this example usually means that the topsoil is removed and hauled away to be incinerated. That's right they burn the dirt. :) Leaving the remaining arsenic at "acceptable" levels and clearing the builder to develope the property as planned. Remember this the next time your kid comes home covered in dirt?!?! :( Post up your pictures and I'll give you my honest, though, not expert opinion but I would strongly suggest asking someone within your company for a copy of the environmental study performed on the site (but don't be surprised if they tell you to take a hike). The findings in that report are more important than any picture. Dry cleaners/Laundrymats can be a very, very nasty polluters of the sub-surface.