DougZ
07-27-2006, 09:09 AM
I am copy and pasting my thread from another board. Enjoy. The motor is back in the bike now, so this is all after the fact.
Well, tonight is the first night that I started working on the GSXR motor. Took a good long time figuring how which way gear selector moves with no shift arm and engine upside down..not to mention that its Gp shift. Also spent a good amount of time looking at the donating motor and see if I could see any obvious differences between its trans and the current track bike trans. Didn't come up with much outside of motor was really hard to turn over.....till I remembered to remove the plugs. LOL
I haven't really broken open the manual yet, for the simple fact that when I did look at it last week, it only mentions the trans on one page, which is pretty much in middle of motor tear down. Having the donated motor is nice...makes removing tons of bolts, and tearing off case parts much easier to do, so I know what I am doing when it comes to the track bike motor.
I also wanted to state that I remember someone in a thread said motorcycles don't really have an oil pan...I don't know about the twin motors, but the GSXR inline four sure does. Its below the motor in the first pic below.
I gave up for tonight..back is hurting and need to cool off. I will keep udating this post as I go, for those interested.
Some pics:
Current track bike motor in plastic work container. Sucks not having a garage with work bench, but I get by.
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor6.jpg
The work area..its nice having carpet that I don't care too much about..although I try to keep it grease free.
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor7.jpg
The donated motor...will become spare GSXR bike's motor....education motor for now..thanks KT.
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor8.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was pleasantly surprised that although I did have to split the cases, I did not have to touch anything on the top end of the motor. After dropping the "oil pan", and removing the water pump, the whole bottom of the motor..basically trans as one unit, comes right out. This is hopefully going to be a lot more simple than I originally thought it was going to be.
I am going to get the gaskets I need tonight..hopefully, and then come back and try to find the reason for the trans issues. In either case, I am prolly just gonna swap the trans/bottom end from the donor motor and be done with it. It should be good enough to get me through the next set of track days at the end of the month.
I will update with more/better pics tonight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as the cases being split..as I said above, all I needed to do was pull out the trans, and bottom case. The entire top end of my motor is fine with the exception of needing to replace the valve cover gasket. Its actually going to be a much quicker job than I thought.
Here is a crude pic to show how the cases actually are. Many people told me I was gonna have to take apart the top end of the motor to get the trans out..but luckily, that was just not true. I think there may confusion about cases, because I suspect our Vtwin cases are a side by side orientation, but, the GSXR inline four, is a stacked configuration.
http://home.comcast.net/~dz08015/motorx.jpg
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Small update:
I am glad to report that I found a dealer not too far from work, that not only has the ability to cut the gaskets I need for the motor, but, get ready for this, actually had both of them in stock, AND, was only pennies above Ron Ayers prices. Provided I go to this dealer, get what I need and not have any issues, I will reveal their name with omniscience accolades...Xtreme Cycles.
It ended up being that they had every gasket that I needed in stock, and even a couple of the extra gaskets that I wanted to replace......while I have the motor out anyway. I was gonna have them cut me a whole set..which would have been way cheaper than buying OEM ones anyway.....I'll do that for the second bike..when the time comes.
Also, a weird but cool thing...I ended up knowing some of the guys that work in the parts dept, including the manager. One of the guys that worked there was the guy that I bought the spare parts from for the track bike....frame, wheels, etc. Small world. Either way, I am sure I will be hanging at that dealer much more.
I just ate dinner...as soon as I digest a bit, its time to swap the trans missions out, put in the new gasket, and start putting 'er back together.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry..no pics from last night. As usual, I spoke too soon, and in thinking that it would be easy to get the lower case off of the current motor...I was wrong..but figured it out.
When I took the lower case off of the donor motor, all I had to remove was the 14 bolts holding it on from the bottom. I had removed the same 14 bolts from my motor, labelled each one with a number to know where they back in...with a diagram I drew up, and placed them in a ziplock bag. Time to pull off the lower case...right...wrong. I tried for over an hour to get it to budge, but no luck..I was trying everything.
Then, when I was about to start punching holes in the walls, I looked at the manual one last time. It seems there was another 6 bolts that needed to be removed from the topside of the motor. I never even thought about that, since KT's motor did not have those bolts in. So, after realizing what a dumba$$ I was, I got the bolts out, and the lower case came off about a minute later. At that point, it was 10 pm..so I called it a night and cleaned up the "work area", and went to bed.
After I am done packing/organizing for the MotoGP trip tonight, I will maybe try swapping over the trans and clutch parts.....and cleaning up the case mating surfaces for mating.
??: Anyone know a viaable alternative to Suzuki Bond 1270B?? I would like to pick up something from a local autoparts store, to mate the cases together. Thanks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update 7/26/06:
Got back from the weekend trip to MotoGP, and had originally planned on going into work on Monday. I flew all night, and had planned on sleeping on the plane...but that didn't work out so well. I sleot for about 1/2 hr at a time, or until my neck, or butt, or feet...or anything felt uncomfortable and decided to wake me up to move around. Needless to say, I was dead tired when I got back into Philly, and decided to call in on Monday to catch up on my sleep. Good thing I did, cause even though I was back at my house my 8:30 ish, I slept well until mid afternoon.
Anyway...I got up and decided to start working on the bike motor, since I was home and able. Monday afternoon, I was able to swap over the entire trans from one bike to the other....all the gears, shafts, gear selecor cam, and linkage as well. I could not see anything obviously wrong with the track bike trans, but swapped everything anyway...leaving nothing to chance.
After eating dinner, I went back to work on the motor/trans. My buddy had picked up the Suzuki gasket maker for me, and put the cases back together using it. I also put on the oil pan and new gasket for it. I decided that was a good point to leave it at, and let the gaskets set over night.
Tuesday (7/25): I actually went to work today. I would have preferred to stay home and work on the bike, but the bills have to get paid somehow. Anyway, I turned the motor back over from the night befores work, and decided to replace the gaskets on the starter side cases. There are two there, and whilst the bike has been leaking oil, I did some from those areas, so I grabbed those gasket while at the dealer as well...again, leaving nothing to chance. I changed those gaskets last night, along with putting the clutch cover back on with a new gasket as well. The whole time I am doing all these gaskets, I am cleaning off the old gaskets with a razor blade, being careful not to nick the mating surfaces. I am also using brakecleen to get rid of the oil on the surfaces, for better bonding.
Lastly last night, I put the motor upright, and replaced the suspected leaking valve cover gasket. I notice that the engine builder barely used any silicone gasket maker on the cam ends...where its called for. I loaded up pretty good on it, loading more to the outside of the head, and put the new gasket in place. Valve cover went back on and bolted down to torque.
Its amazing how many things on that motor only call for 7 ft/lbs of torque. Almost every case bolt I had to put in was at that amount. The six bolts that I issues with, from the top side, when trying to get the trans case off, were the only ones I remember being higher, and they were at 19 ft/lbs.
I took picks of the finished motor sitting in that plastic box...but didn't bother to upload. The motor will hopefully go back into bike tonight. Keep your fingers crossed that everything goes well.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, well its not 10:05 PM on 7/26/06. I just got done with cleaning up after getting the motor in. I had a multiude of issues as I was trying to install it..like the bike was fighting me the whole time.
The motor itself went in kinda easy. The rolling chassis of the bike with no motor in it, is really light.....I would be surprised if its more than 125 lbs....I can pick it up..the whole thing, with ease. Anyway, having done this once before, I basically lay the motor, header side down without the pipes on, get the rear most, lowest mount point bolted up, and then rotate the motor up into the frame an install the rest of the motor mount bolts. That was the easy part.
Once the motor was installed in the frame, I had the first issue. I had not lined the chained up on the sprocket. If anyone has ever tried to get the chain on once the bike is in the frame, its near impossible. I had to prod and pull on the chain, to get it to go over the sprocket nut. That took about 20 minutes longer than it shoud have, but then I finally got it on....and on to problem #2.
#2..the sprocket was a stock one....one the counter shaft from the main trans that was from the donor trans. The chain and rear sprocket that are on the bike have to be a 520. No prob right...swap the front sprocket off the trans that was replaced, right...sure...getting the sprocket off the replaced counter shaft....without a vice, was impossible. Thank goodness for the spare parts box that I got with the track bike. It had a spare sprocket that would fit the chain. The only difference was it was a 16 tooth vs a 15 tooth...I didn't care at that point.
So, once all that was done, it was time to hook up the shift linkage, all eletrical connections, cooling system hoses, headers/exhaust system, radiator, fuel tank, and then fill the rad and oil. Luckily, that all went pretty well, although the sun was not on my side and went down with at least an hour worth of work to do. I did the final fluids filling and start up by flashlight. I had my fingers crossed, turned the key, looked for error codes of a potential missed connector.
The moment of truth: I started the bike, and it roared to life like it never missed a beat. The paper new gaskets smoked a bit until they got saturated..but luckily no leaks..that I could see with a flashlight anyway. With the bike on the stand, and the g/f maintaining idle..since the bike won't till fully warm....I started the bike and ran it through the gears. Luckily, I must have done something right, cause the all seemed to work.....up into first, down into 2nd, then 3rd, then 4th, and finally 5th and 6th.....all went in and worked...back to N. I had wanted to ride it around the block to make sure they work under load, but it was about 10 pm by that point, and didn't want the neighbors calling the cops on the guy with the race bike.
I have a little bit left to do, but that can be finished Friday night while packing up the gear for this weekend's tracl days. I am happy to know that I will be able to make it to a meet up tomorrow night with some of my local riding buddies.
Left to do...bleed coolant system...recheck oil level.....adjust chain tension....and put the seat and track body work back on.
Here are the picks from last night and tonights work. I only got as far as taking pics of the empty frame...the sun was down by the time I got everything back together.
Here are the pics:
This is is the donor lower case. The trans is basically in the rear square section...the front section resides under the crank.
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor9.jpg
This is the track bike motor, new trans in place, and lower case ready for install.
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor10.jpg
This is the motor back together and gaskets setting for tonights install
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor11.jpg
The bike ready for its reworked motor/trans.
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor12.jpg
Do you think a SV motor would fit? ;D
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor13.jpg
Well, tonight is the first night that I started working on the GSXR motor. Took a good long time figuring how which way gear selector moves with no shift arm and engine upside down..not to mention that its Gp shift. Also spent a good amount of time looking at the donating motor and see if I could see any obvious differences between its trans and the current track bike trans. Didn't come up with much outside of motor was really hard to turn over.....till I remembered to remove the plugs. LOL
I haven't really broken open the manual yet, for the simple fact that when I did look at it last week, it only mentions the trans on one page, which is pretty much in middle of motor tear down. Having the donated motor is nice...makes removing tons of bolts, and tearing off case parts much easier to do, so I know what I am doing when it comes to the track bike motor.
I also wanted to state that I remember someone in a thread said motorcycles don't really have an oil pan...I don't know about the twin motors, but the GSXR inline four sure does. Its below the motor in the first pic below.
I gave up for tonight..back is hurting and need to cool off. I will keep udating this post as I go, for those interested.
Some pics:
Current track bike motor in plastic work container. Sucks not having a garage with work bench, but I get by.
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor6.jpg
The work area..its nice having carpet that I don't care too much about..although I try to keep it grease free.
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor7.jpg
The donated motor...will become spare GSXR bike's motor....education motor for now..thanks KT.
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor8.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was pleasantly surprised that although I did have to split the cases, I did not have to touch anything on the top end of the motor. After dropping the "oil pan", and removing the water pump, the whole bottom of the motor..basically trans as one unit, comes right out. This is hopefully going to be a lot more simple than I originally thought it was going to be.
I am going to get the gaskets I need tonight..hopefully, and then come back and try to find the reason for the trans issues. In either case, I am prolly just gonna swap the trans/bottom end from the donor motor and be done with it. It should be good enough to get me through the next set of track days at the end of the month.
I will update with more/better pics tonight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as the cases being split..as I said above, all I needed to do was pull out the trans, and bottom case. The entire top end of my motor is fine with the exception of needing to replace the valve cover gasket. Its actually going to be a much quicker job than I thought.
Here is a crude pic to show how the cases actually are. Many people told me I was gonna have to take apart the top end of the motor to get the trans out..but luckily, that was just not true. I think there may confusion about cases, because I suspect our Vtwin cases are a side by side orientation, but, the GSXR inline four, is a stacked configuration.
http://home.comcast.net/~dz08015/motorx.jpg
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Small update:
I am glad to report that I found a dealer not too far from work, that not only has the ability to cut the gaskets I need for the motor, but, get ready for this, actually had both of them in stock, AND, was only pennies above Ron Ayers prices. Provided I go to this dealer, get what I need and not have any issues, I will reveal their name with omniscience accolades...Xtreme Cycles.
It ended up being that they had every gasket that I needed in stock, and even a couple of the extra gaskets that I wanted to replace......while I have the motor out anyway. I was gonna have them cut me a whole set..which would have been way cheaper than buying OEM ones anyway.....I'll do that for the second bike..when the time comes.
Also, a weird but cool thing...I ended up knowing some of the guys that work in the parts dept, including the manager. One of the guys that worked there was the guy that I bought the spare parts from for the track bike....frame, wheels, etc. Small world. Either way, I am sure I will be hanging at that dealer much more.
I just ate dinner...as soon as I digest a bit, its time to swap the trans missions out, put in the new gasket, and start putting 'er back together.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry..no pics from last night. As usual, I spoke too soon, and in thinking that it would be easy to get the lower case off of the current motor...I was wrong..but figured it out.
When I took the lower case off of the donor motor, all I had to remove was the 14 bolts holding it on from the bottom. I had removed the same 14 bolts from my motor, labelled each one with a number to know where they back in...with a diagram I drew up, and placed them in a ziplock bag. Time to pull off the lower case...right...wrong. I tried for over an hour to get it to budge, but no luck..I was trying everything.
Then, when I was about to start punching holes in the walls, I looked at the manual one last time. It seems there was another 6 bolts that needed to be removed from the topside of the motor. I never even thought about that, since KT's motor did not have those bolts in. So, after realizing what a dumba$$ I was, I got the bolts out, and the lower case came off about a minute later. At that point, it was 10 pm..so I called it a night and cleaned up the "work area", and went to bed.
After I am done packing/organizing for the MotoGP trip tonight, I will maybe try swapping over the trans and clutch parts.....and cleaning up the case mating surfaces for mating.
??: Anyone know a viaable alternative to Suzuki Bond 1270B?? I would like to pick up something from a local autoparts store, to mate the cases together. Thanks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update 7/26/06:
Got back from the weekend trip to MotoGP, and had originally planned on going into work on Monday. I flew all night, and had planned on sleeping on the plane...but that didn't work out so well. I sleot for about 1/2 hr at a time, or until my neck, or butt, or feet...or anything felt uncomfortable and decided to wake me up to move around. Needless to say, I was dead tired when I got back into Philly, and decided to call in on Monday to catch up on my sleep. Good thing I did, cause even though I was back at my house my 8:30 ish, I slept well until mid afternoon.
Anyway...I got up and decided to start working on the bike motor, since I was home and able. Monday afternoon, I was able to swap over the entire trans from one bike to the other....all the gears, shafts, gear selecor cam, and linkage as well. I could not see anything obviously wrong with the track bike trans, but swapped everything anyway...leaving nothing to chance.
After eating dinner, I went back to work on the motor/trans. My buddy had picked up the Suzuki gasket maker for me, and put the cases back together using it. I also put on the oil pan and new gasket for it. I decided that was a good point to leave it at, and let the gaskets set over night.
Tuesday (7/25): I actually went to work today. I would have preferred to stay home and work on the bike, but the bills have to get paid somehow. Anyway, I turned the motor back over from the night befores work, and decided to replace the gaskets on the starter side cases. There are two there, and whilst the bike has been leaking oil, I did some from those areas, so I grabbed those gasket while at the dealer as well...again, leaving nothing to chance. I changed those gaskets last night, along with putting the clutch cover back on with a new gasket as well. The whole time I am doing all these gaskets, I am cleaning off the old gaskets with a razor blade, being careful not to nick the mating surfaces. I am also using brakecleen to get rid of the oil on the surfaces, for better bonding.
Lastly last night, I put the motor upright, and replaced the suspected leaking valve cover gasket. I notice that the engine builder barely used any silicone gasket maker on the cam ends...where its called for. I loaded up pretty good on it, loading more to the outside of the head, and put the new gasket in place. Valve cover went back on and bolted down to torque.
Its amazing how many things on that motor only call for 7 ft/lbs of torque. Almost every case bolt I had to put in was at that amount. The six bolts that I issues with, from the top side, when trying to get the trans case off, were the only ones I remember being higher, and they were at 19 ft/lbs.
I took picks of the finished motor sitting in that plastic box...but didn't bother to upload. The motor will hopefully go back into bike tonight. Keep your fingers crossed that everything goes well.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, well its not 10:05 PM on 7/26/06. I just got done with cleaning up after getting the motor in. I had a multiude of issues as I was trying to install it..like the bike was fighting me the whole time.
The motor itself went in kinda easy. The rolling chassis of the bike with no motor in it, is really light.....I would be surprised if its more than 125 lbs....I can pick it up..the whole thing, with ease. Anyway, having done this once before, I basically lay the motor, header side down without the pipes on, get the rear most, lowest mount point bolted up, and then rotate the motor up into the frame an install the rest of the motor mount bolts. That was the easy part.
Once the motor was installed in the frame, I had the first issue. I had not lined the chained up on the sprocket. If anyone has ever tried to get the chain on once the bike is in the frame, its near impossible. I had to prod and pull on the chain, to get it to go over the sprocket nut. That took about 20 minutes longer than it shoud have, but then I finally got it on....and on to problem #2.
#2..the sprocket was a stock one....one the counter shaft from the main trans that was from the donor trans. The chain and rear sprocket that are on the bike have to be a 520. No prob right...swap the front sprocket off the trans that was replaced, right...sure...getting the sprocket off the replaced counter shaft....without a vice, was impossible. Thank goodness for the spare parts box that I got with the track bike. It had a spare sprocket that would fit the chain. The only difference was it was a 16 tooth vs a 15 tooth...I didn't care at that point.
So, once all that was done, it was time to hook up the shift linkage, all eletrical connections, cooling system hoses, headers/exhaust system, radiator, fuel tank, and then fill the rad and oil. Luckily, that all went pretty well, although the sun was not on my side and went down with at least an hour worth of work to do. I did the final fluids filling and start up by flashlight. I had my fingers crossed, turned the key, looked for error codes of a potential missed connector.
The moment of truth: I started the bike, and it roared to life like it never missed a beat. The paper new gaskets smoked a bit until they got saturated..but luckily no leaks..that I could see with a flashlight anyway. With the bike on the stand, and the g/f maintaining idle..since the bike won't till fully warm....I started the bike and ran it through the gears. Luckily, I must have done something right, cause the all seemed to work.....up into first, down into 2nd, then 3rd, then 4th, and finally 5th and 6th.....all went in and worked...back to N. I had wanted to ride it around the block to make sure they work under load, but it was about 10 pm by that point, and didn't want the neighbors calling the cops on the guy with the race bike.
I have a little bit left to do, but that can be finished Friday night while packing up the gear for this weekend's tracl days. I am happy to know that I will be able to make it to a meet up tomorrow night with some of my local riding buddies.
Left to do...bleed coolant system...recheck oil level.....adjust chain tension....and put the seat and track body work back on.
Here are the picks from last night and tonights work. I only got as far as taking pics of the empty frame...the sun was down by the time I got everything back together.
Here are the pics:
This is is the donor lower case. The trans is basically in the rear square section...the front section resides under the crank.
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor9.jpg
This is the track bike motor, new trans in place, and lower case ready for install.
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor10.jpg
This is the motor back together and gaskets setting for tonights install
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor11.jpg
The bike ready for its reworked motor/trans.
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor12.jpg
Do you think a SV motor would fit? ;D
http://home.comcast.net/~dougz73/gix2/motor13.jpg