gsxr front master cylinder upgrade

[bobbydigital04]

does anybody know what a good swap is when switching a better front master cylinder off another bike onto my 02 gix 600?

[Cakes206]

What kind of braking mods do you have in place now?

[CBRBob]

Is there something wrong with what it is doing?

[AfricanBootyScratcher]

is it broke, if not don't bother changing it. I've still got the stock on my 01 with SS lines, Vesrah RJL pads, and use motul RBF600 fluid, and they work fine. Yes gsxr brakes are far from the best but they work OK. Plus brakes that work too good only slow you down more :D
if it NEEDS replacement (ie, is not working properly), use the one off of an 04 and up R1, it's a brembo and works great.

[bobbydigital04]

they aren't broke, but they are in need of improvement

[Cakes206]

they aren't broke, but they are in need of improvement
Hey bobby, what are you experiencing that you feel they are in need of improvement? Wwhat braking mods do you have thus far? Stainless lines? HH or some other higher performing brake pad? What kind of brake fluid? You'd be amazed at the stopping power you can acheive with a stock master cyl.

[bobbydigital04]

only mods are stainless lines, and what i feel is that when i come into a corner off of a straightaway, there is a lack of feedback and i have to squeeze them way to hard to achieve maximum braking. one time coming into turn one at vir south, somebody braking much earlier than i was suddenly swerved to the outside right in front of me and i grabbed them so hard that my rear tire came off the ground about 6 inches from about 120 to 70 mph, so i know they can generate the stopping power, but they dont have the feel i am looking for

[Cakes206]

only mods are stainless lines, and what i feel is that when i come into a corner off of a straightaway, there is a lack of feedback and i have to squeeze them way to hard to achieve maximum braking. one time coming into turn one at vir south, somebody braking much earlier than i was suddenly swerved to the outside right in front of me and i grabbed them so hard that my rear tire came off the ground about 6 inches from about 120 to 70 mph, so i know they can generate the stopping power, but they dont have the feel i am looking for

When was the fluid changed last? Sounds like brake fade due to worn out fluid. Start with new fluid and some fresh HH pads and take it from there.

[BurnCycle]

What size master is on the GSXR? 14mm or 5/8"? It is stamped on the underside of the MC.

[CBRBob]

I would flush the fluid and use new pads. As long as you get a good lever, thats all you need. Don't just throw the pads on, Clean the glazing off the rotors. If you skip this step you lose some of the braking potential. Take them off and have trhem bead-blasted at a machine shop or get a drill kit that uses the small 3M pads. Use the medium pad and just use it enough to take the shine off the surface. Then clean with brake cleaner spray.

[kneedragger]

what about using a mater off of a newer gixxer with radial brakes?

[CBRBob]

Why throw parts at something that only needs some maintenance?

[BurnCycle]

Why not? :LOL:

[CBRBob]

OK, give us the $ for the m/c, then flush the fluid, new pads. I know you like changing parts for some reason, but that dosen't necessarily make things better. Sometimes it's just different.

[BurnCycle]

Bob, different isn't always bad. I do things because I can. I do them because I want to. I do them because theirs someone like you who won’t do them. If I do something that upsets the bike or doesn’t have the desired outcome them it gets removed (like the Brembo master on the TLR).

Your old school mentality of if it isn’t broken, don’t screw with it doesn’t work for me. I want to experience these things for myself so I can make my own determination. Just because I come from a land of sheep ( http://www.nz.com/) doesn’t mean I have to act like one. Looks like plenty of people do that already.

The money aspect is a feeble excuse for an argument against something by the way.

[AfricanBootyScratcher]

actually, for many of us, the money is quite a good argument. A smart shopper must weigh bennifit vs expenditure. Yes the new master may be hair better, but not a giant diffrence at our level, so why make a large expenditure that's going to give you minimal gains?
I'de rather use the money for more new tires.

[BurnCycle]

Bollocks.

[RCM78]

Last time I was at VIR with my old bike('01 R1) I bumped a guy to blue riding the same bike. His had a brembo MC,Ohlins forks with Brembo Calipers,stainless lines and some kind of aftermarket rotors and pads.

I had no trouble outbraking him with all my stock component. I did have stainless lines,vesrah RJL pads, and fresh motul fluid.

We had a nice conversation about brakes after that session...

[CBRBob]

No sheep here dude. The old if it ain broke dont fix it is not how I operate. If it's gonna improve braking by 3% and it costs $300....is it worth it? Pads and fluid may make a %5 improvement for $75. Thats just changing parts to do it. Like people who sold their 03-04 600rrs to get the 05 when it came out because it had radial brakes. Yea ok. All the Duhamel wannabee's feel good and the used bike market gets lots of semi used bikes.
I know you like to change parts and thats cool but if all this guy needs is new fluid and pads, why sell him a m/c?

There was a guy on another board that was telling people that they needed a whole fork rebuild and an ohlins before they took their 1000rr on the track for the 1st time or they would crash. I told them to set the sag, dial in the damping and have fun. He jumped down my throat! WTF, the bike is meant for the track and this guy is telling everyone they will crash unless they buy 2K in parts. The people that are doing their 1st day will never use their bikes past 75% etc.

Do whats necessary, they do the fancy stuff if you want.

FYI: I am working with a friend who has big brake fade at the track. He has stock lines/pads etc. Someone gave him the brembo m/c line as well. I have a nissin m/c with the same bore we are going to try and see if the lever travel will be adversely effected. Don't want too hard a lever since the brembo m/c is much larger in bore. So you see, I am not against doing this if it needs to be done.

[njracer]

OK, here is my .02.

Change your pads to the Vesrah SRJL17's, flush out your system and run a good quality brake fluid, Castrol SRF is the BEST. Properly fill your system and correctly bleed it. Once you think you have all of the air out, take a zip tie and wrap it around the brake lever and your grip. Pull that fugger tight and let it sit over night. In the morning, cut the zip tie off and bleed it one more time. You should have a very good lever at this time.

njracer

[BurnCycle]

:)

The Nissin radial on the TLS was done for experimentation and necessity… and it only cost $75. The 14mm conventional MC and 4-piston calipers left me cold one day while riding up the local mountain. I needed to brake heavily but couldn't squeeze hard enough to get the braking I wanted. I moved to the larger TLR caliper (6-piston) and needed a larger MC to push them. At the time no one had put the MC on a TLS and I wanted to see if it works with the larger calipers. It does, very nicely in fact.

The Brembo on the TLR was purchased to replace a broken AP Racing MC. I purchased it out of necessity. It works well; I have the same feel in the brakes at the end of the day as I did at the beginning. I only have an issue with the initial travel of the lever that I don't like.

Since I know the Nissin work with the 6-pistons I may end up selling the Brembo and getting another Nissin for the TLR.

My first track day was 3 years ago… It’s been all downhill since. I’m also riding a bikes that have been out of production for a while (3 for the TLR and 5 for the TLS) so updating them is up to me. If I wanted to get the best I’d be riding something.

BTW RCM… The ability to out brake another bike is based largely on rider skill and knowledge to use what they have. I am well aware that having top of the line equipment is nothing unless you know how to use it. The wet weight of a TLR is over 500lbs. Add another 230lbs for me and you’ll see my need to upgrade.

[RCM78]

BTW RCM… The ability to out brake another bike is based largely on rider skill and knowledge to use what they have. I am well aware that having top of the line equipment is nothing unless you know how to use it. The wet weight of a TLR is over 500lbs. Add another 230lbs for me and you’ll see my need to upgrade.

That was my point exactly.

[NYCSTRIPES]

Back to the original point, I also think that a change in fluid and pads are more in order here. If you havent got stainless or kevlar brake lines that too is a great investment.
If its more than that you're looking for, I am not sure why you'd need it ona 600. I recently upgraded the front brakes on my Suzuki TLR, I grabbed a used set of cast iron PFM rotors and had them resurfaced, Ferodo soft race pads, SS lines, and a Nissin Radial master cylinder. For a bike as heavy as my TLR, all I can say is WOW for brake improvement. Now this thing has some braking power. I need to re-learn the feel of it, but it is a major improvement.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/nycstripes/2003%20Suzuki%20TL1000R/IMG_2670.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/nycstripes/2003%20Suzuki%20TL1000R/IMG_2667.jpg

[bobbydigital04]

good lookin bike

[pillaka]

All you need to do is upgrade your pads and fluid.

I am assuming you're running older fluid and maybe OEM brake pads? Then you're probably getting some fade after running a few laps.

Run some Motul dot4 fluid and vesrah pads and that'll make huge difference.

[High_Revs_17]

Just run the same front end John Hopkins does...it's only money.

[bikerguyzx12]

PHEW, ITS GETTIN PRETTY HOT IN HERE

[bobbydigital04]

just to settle things, i ended up going with new fluid at first, but now im runnin new pads, new fluid, and a radial pull m/c off chris' 05 r6, well see how it works out

[SPL170db]

Depends on how much you are willing to spend on it. If you are in the mood for a little project you can easily find a binned 05-07 600/750 front end on eBay for probably about $500-600 and with that you'll have updated inverted forks, radial mount calipers and radial master cylinder.


It's not a bad investment for what you're getting


http://i9.tinypic.com/4g5k7ky.jpg


example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/gsxr-600-750-forks-front-end-w-brakes-triples-06-2006_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35592QQihZ012QQite mZ220045914106QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/gsxr-600-750-forks-front-end-w-brakes-triples-06-2006_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35587QQihZ019QQite mZ290047435993QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[Lucky7]

:)
The 14mm conventional MC and 4-piston calipers left me cold one day while riding up the local mountain. I needed to brake heavily but couldn't squeeze hard enough to get the braking I wanted. I moved to the larger TLR caliper (6-piston) and needed a larger MC to push them. At the time no one had put the MC on a TLS and I wanted to see if it works with the larger calipers. It does, very nicely in fact.


I did this conversion on the TLS only I went with the Hayabusa 6 pistons and the M/C off a 2001 Gixxer 1000. Works well. I just found the stockers on the TLS a little lacking, even with new pads, new fluids, new lines.