Dual purpose bike

[CoolerBig]

I have a question for all track junkies out there. :wave2: I have 2005 Kawi ZX10R. Now, I was thinking of getting another ZX10R for the track. So, the question is: How hard is it to use one bike for both street and track? Is it a lot of pain to switch plastics every time. I would assume it is. Is there any simple way to set up a bike for dual purpose(street and track)? So, I don't have to spend a lot of money for another ZX10R + mods...

[CBRBob]

I have a question for all track junkies out there. :wave2: I have 2005 Kawi ZX10R. Now, I was thinking of getting another ZX10R for the track. So, the question is: How hard is it to use one bike for both street and track? Is it a lot of pain to switch plastics every time. I would assume it is. Is there any simple way to set up a bike for dual purpose(street and track)? So, I don't have to spend a lot of money for another ZX10R + mods...

Why not make the 10 the track bike and get something a little more reasonable for the street. Most of us have something a bit more comfortable for the street as you don't need to be scrunched up in public.
There is no way to make the transformation easy, changing all that stuff can take quite a while and even longer if you run any kind of race rubber. Then you need spare wheels!
If you are going 2-3 times a year, suck it up. Any more than that and you need to start thinking of a 2nd bike.

[Kennedy]

Well in response to your question I have a zx6r that was converted into a street fighter after my accident. Therefore I do not have any street plastics besides my tail section and my fender. I bought track plastics which I plan on putting on when I do ride the track. I also have started my purchase on a spare set of wheels for race rubber. The only reason I have yet to buy another bike for the street and track my 636 is because I am a poor 17 year old going to college and working a part time job.

[CoolerBig]

Thanks, Bob

That's what I figured. I think it will be huge pain in the butt to transform the bike.
I am planning on going to the track as often as once a week(could be more). The reason I am trying to have two identical bikes for the street and the track is because you don't have to get used to different setup every time you switch bikes. That could be wrong assumption, but as far as I know your neuromuscular system has to reset itself for a new setup/bike. For instance when I tried to switch my ice hockey skates (both skates were broken in by me) I didn't feel as good on the ice as with the other skates. After a while I got used to the skates and could do as well. Same thing happened when I switched back...

[CoolerBig]

Well in response to your question I have a zx6r that was converted into a street fighter after my accident. Therefore I do not have any street plastics besides my tail section and my fender. I bought track plastics which I plan on putting on when I do ride the track. I also have started my purchase on a spare set of wheels for race rubber. The only reason I have yet to buy another bike for the street and track my 636 is because I am a poor 17 year old going to college and working a part time job.

What about headlights, tailight, blinkers and all that electrical crap? I mean, it seems to me that if you plan on going to the track often, then it will be a huge pain in the butt to do that much work every time...

[tommymac]

What about headlights, tailight, blinkers and all that electrical crap? I mean, it seems to me that if you plan on going to the track often, then it will be a huge pain in the butt to do that much work every time...

All that stuff takes me about 20 minutes to do. Tape up the lights, remove the mirrors and disconnect the bulbs. If you run in the faster groups tires may be an added issue but I use the diablo corsas for street and track use.

Tom

[CoolerBig]

All that stuff takes me about 20 minutes to do. Tape up the lights, remove the mirrors and disconnect the bulbs. If you run in the faster groups tires may be an added issue but I use the diablo corsas for street and track use.

Tom

So, from my understanding you basically don't bother to change plastics. You just disconnect electrical stuff and tape the lights. Correct? What if you crash? Then you will have to spend a lot of money on stock plastics and shit like that...
I don't think tires are a big deal for me. At this point I am just starting my track days. So, I won't be going fast for a while. Need to learn a lot. So, I am planning on using Michelin PP for the street and the track.

[Kennedy]

When I said I converted it to street fighter all that I have to take off is the small headlight that I purchased after market, takes about 2 minutes to unstrap the straps and disconnect the wires from the plug into the main harness and Im finished.

[Jimmy]

I am planning on going to the track as often as once a week(could be more).
:wow: Did you hit the lottery? :lol:

I have a gsxr for the track and a 748 for the street and have no trouble adjusting between the two so I wouldn't worry about that. Most will agree that the zx10 is overkill for the track so I'd keep that for the street and pick up a 600 for the track.

[Kennedy]

:wow: Did you hit the lottery? :lol:

I have a gsxr for the track and a 748 for the street and have no trouble adjusting between the two so I wouldn't worry about that. Most will agree that the zx10 is overkill for the track so I'd keep that for the street and pick up a 600 for the track.

+1 on the 600

[CoolerBig]

[QUOTE=jimmy]:wow: Did you hit the lottery? :lol:
QUOTE]

Let's put it this way... I like riding a lot. I don't care how much I spend on something that I like. I don't go to clubs/restaurants. I don't drink/smoke. Think about it this way: People , spend $100-250 a weekend going to stinky, noisy clubs...Well, I add another 50-100 and I am on the track. Much more fun for me. :nod2:

[Vin]

I don't go to clubs/restaurants. I don't drink/smoke. Think about it this way: People , spend $100-250 a weekend going to stinky, noisy clubs...Well, I add another 50-100 and I am on the track. Much more fun for me. :nod2:

I like the way this guy thinks.

[Kennedy]

Im not old enough to think that way yet :lol:

[High_Revs_17]

Most will agree that the zx10 is overkill for the track

The 10 is not overkill for any track, maybe for the rider but it's up to he/she to learn the bike's full potential...it was made for the track. It is overkill on the street.

If he wants a secondary bike for the street he should pick up a 600 being even most 600's are more than enough for the street and his fuel mileage and ins. rates will be much better.

[CoolerBig]

[QUOTE=High_Revs_17]The 10 is not overkill for any track, maybe for the rider but it's up to he/she to learn the bike's full potential...it was made for the track. It is overkill on the street.
[QUOTE]

I agree 100%. It's the rider who makes that difference.
As for the street...Well, I enjoy it. I tried ZX6R and I didn't like it. Mileage? Not a big deal.

[Kennedy]

Just means you'll be braking more :)

[tommymac]

So, from my understanding you basically don't bother to change plastics. You just disconnect electrical stuff and tape the lights. Correct? What if you crash? Then you will have to spend a lot of money on stock plastics and shit like that...
I don't think tires are a big deal for me. At this point I am just starting my track days. So, I won't be going fast for a while. Need to learn a lot. So, I am planning on using Michelin PP for the street and the track.

my bike is half faired TL1000S and I already crashed once with it so my stock plastics are my street plastics. For a full faired bike you will still have to pay a nice piece of change for track plastics so itsa all a wash anyway. ( Plus I have an unpainted set I bught for 250 bucks) And if thats the case add another 20 to 30 minutes to swap the plastics.

Tom

[tommymac]

I like the way this guy thinks.

I am sure his credit card company does too :lol:

Tom

[CoolerBig]

I am sure his credit card company does too :lol:

Tom

Don't use plastic that much. You pay twice when you abuse credit cards.

[CoolerBig]

Just means you'll be braking more :)
I can't agree.

[Jimmy]

The 10 is not overkill for any track, maybe for the rider but it's up to he/she to learn the bike's full potential...it was made for the track. It is overkill on the street.

If he wants a secondary bike for the street he should pick up a 600 being even most 600's are more than enough for the street and his fuel mileage and ins. rates will be much better.
Like I said...MOST will agree that it's overkill. Especially those of us who've actually been on a track :thefinger

[carl_g]

Like I said...MOST will agree that it's overkill. Especially those of us who've actually been on a track :thefinger
I was gonna be that guy...see that is why we are a good team.. :wave2:

[tommymac]

I was gonna be that guy...see that is why we are a good team.. :wave2:

So do I get to still be on the team if I downgrade from a 1000 to a 750. I even promise I will make sure it doesnt leak and will wash it once in a while :lol:

Tom

[Jimmy]

So do I get to still be on the team if I downgrade from a 1000 to a 750. I even promise I will make sure it doesnt leak and will wash it once in a while :lol:

Tom
downgrade? don't you mean upgrade? :lol:

[Vin]

I can't agree.

I'm with Kennedy and Jimmy here -- have you been to the track yet?

My line of thinking is that a bigger bike is going to carry bigger speed into a corner, hence the need to brake more.

[tommymac]

downgrade? don't you mean upgrade? :lol:

You know what I mean ;)

heres some tenative costs/expenses to worry about in doing a trackday a week

150 dollars or more since one would need to join a few different orginazitions to do that

150 or so for trackday registration per event

Costs for all the necessary gear ( depends on what you still need) head to toe will cost up around 2 grand for good equipment

Gas, food, tolls and lodging per event, this can get pricey. For my trip to beaver run I paid 120+ just for gas since I went by myself

Trailer and a vehicle to pull it ( although most cars could pull the smaller one bike trailers)

Parts and maintenance. Even though its less miles you should be doing more frequent oil changes, tires, brake pads, and other assorted parts that will wind up breaking

And theres the expenses for the misceleaneous creature comforts, ez ups folding chairs etc......

So trust us in this stuff adds up quickly

Tom

[Cakes206]

The 10 is not overkill for any track, maybe for the rider but it's up to he/she to learn the bike's full potential...it was made for the track. It is overkill on the street.


I agree 100%. It's the rider who makes that difference.
As for the street...Well, I enjoy it. I tried ZX6R and I didn't like it. Mileage? Not a big deal.

Street and track riding are totally different. On the track you're always in the revs...always...and when you aren't, you're on the brakes...and with that 10 you'll be on the brakes alot(as mentioned.) It never fails...(mainly white and red group)the liter bikes go down the strait like at Summit Point Main, get to brake markers and boom...they're parkin it for T1...and those who come in waaay to hot go off the track testing out the kitty litter. IMHO, get a 600 for the track...hell even an sv650 like I got...72hp and its fun as hell passing liter bikes in the turns.

[High_Revs_17]

Especially those of us who've actually been on a track

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what I was refering to regarding the overall performance of the 10. It's a total package that has the power of a liter bike which handles like a 600. More power can be compensated with larger/better brakes & lines, you guys should know this, being you've actually been to the track.

On the track you're always in the revs...always...and when you aren't, you're on the brakes...and with that 10 you'll be on the brakes alot(as mentioned.) It never fails...(mainly white and red group)the liter bikes go down the strait like at Summit Point Main, get to brake markers and boom...they're parkin it for T1...and those who come in waaay to hot go off the track testing out the kitty litter. IMHO, get a 600 for the track...hell even an sv650 like I got...72hp and its fun as hell passing liter bikes in the turns.

You're speaking of rider ability not bike ability regarding white & red groups, doesn't seem to be much mention of this in Blue or GP. You don't see pros making many mistakes on liter bikes, why? cuz they know how to ride the bike.

My point from the beginning is that given a capable rider I'm sure the 10 will will not have a problem eating up 600's all day long. When the engineers at Kawi R&D designed that bike they did so with a strong spirit of the track in mind, not a lazy Sunday rider.

[Qetesh]

Let the pissing match begin...

[Vin]

You don't see pros making many mistakes on liter bikes, why? cuz they know how to ride the bike.
And your average track-day attendee is no pro. Hence the 600 comments.

Mind you, I ride a literbike, but it's a twin with HP specs on par with recent 600's. Granted it has almost double the torque... but that's a different story.

[High_Revs_17]

Let the pissing match begin...

There she is!---> :coffeecup

:cool:

[Cakes206]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what I was refering to regarding the overall performance of the 10. It's a total package that has the power of a liter bike which handles like a 600. More power can be compensated with larger/better brakes & lines, you guys should know this, being you've actually been to the track.



You're speaking of rider ability not bike ability regarding white & red groups, doesn't seem to be much mention of this in Blue or GP. You don't see pros making many mistakes on liter bikes, why? cuz they know how to ride the bike.

My point from the beginning is that given a capable rider I'm sure the 10 will will not have a problem eating up 600's all day long. When the engineers at Kawi R&D designed that bike they did so with a strong spirit of the track in mind, not a lazy Sunday rider.


You're speaking more of technical / what you read info, rather than actual experiences...go out on the track with a liter bike, then go out on 6...THEN you'll see...the stuff about the pro's...throw that shit out the window...none of us will ever see their kind of set ups, doen't apply to regular track day org riding.

[High_Revs_17]

And your average track-day attendee is no pro. Hence the 600 comments.

Mind you, I ride a literbike, but it's a twin with HP specs on par with recent 600's. Granted it has almost double the torque... but that's a different story.

True, but just because one's comfortable on a 600 doesn't mean one should discredit a 1000 either.

Also in your case even though you're running a liter bike you can also rely on excellent engine braking as well.

In general, it's funny sometimes how one needs to be deemed an expert by others before being able to provide any info. on a subject.

[High_Revs_17]

You're speaking more of technical / what you read info, rather than actual experiences...go out on the track with a liter bike, then go out on 6...THEN you'll see...the stuff about the pro's...throw that shit out the window...none of us will ever see their kind of set ups, doen't apply to regular track day org riding.

It's an obvious point that 600's are much easier to ride on track days, but that doesn't mean liter bikes are the devil just because of braking. We all know it's about the rider, how much experience does he/she have and how far are they willing to push themselves to gain it, it's up to the rider to be able to set that bike up right and learn every inch of that bike's strengths and weaknesses. Anyone can do it if they feel up to the challenge and have the extra cash. Guys that ride Blue, GP, or even race amature are there for a reason, as everyone knows, cuz their riding abilities are awesome, not cuz they're riding 600's.

[CoolerBig]

I'm with Kennedy and Jimmy here -- have you been to the track yet?

My line of thinking is that a bigger bike is going to carry bigger speed into a corner, hence the need to brake more.

OK, I am not an expert, but let's define "to brake more". Is it "to brake harder"? or "to brake more often"?
I don't see any problems with braking harder, if your brakes can handle it.

As far as I know corner exits is the biggest problem for liter bike riders. Too much power with no or very little throttle handling experience can be very dangerous.

[CoolerBig]

Street and track riding are totally different. On the track you're always in the revs...always...and when you aren't, you're on the brakes...and with that 10 you'll be on the brakes alot(as mentioned.) It never fails...(mainly white and red group)the liter bikes go down the strait like at Summit Point Main, get to brake markers and boom...they're parkin it for T1...and those who come in waaay to hot go off the track testing out the kitty litter. IMHO, get a 600 for the track...hell even an sv650 like I got...72hp and its fun as hell passing liter bikes in the turns.
Again, I can't really comment on this, since I've never been on the track. But I can use a bit of logic here...
Let me ask you a question... Are you trying to say that there is a logical limit in power output on the track? And the 600 bike is doing much better with its power/weight ratio? Well, why would pro motoGP guys race something 240HP/320lbs dry? If there is a 120 HP reasonable limit then why would anyone want to race more powerful bikes?? If 120 HP bikes do better on the track, then they should choose them over 240 HP. It seems to me that rider's skills make that difference. And if you pass those liter bikes at the corners, in my opinion, that only means that you are a better rider...

[Kennedy]

You're speaking more of technical / what you read info, rather than actual experiences...go out on the track with a liter bike, then go out on 6...THEN you'll see...the stuff about the pro's...throw that shit out the window...none of us will ever see their kind of set ups, doen't apply to regular track day org riding.

I can't agree more here with you cakes, Unless you are one of the hayden brothers you can kiss the factory perfomance "gains" out the window. And as you know horsepower means nothing except for the straight away and even then the more corner speed you have the better drive you will get out of the corner...10 feet on the gas earlier can give you a couple of fractions of a second to your lap time and that = winning races.

I as well was watching those guys at the GP moto race going down summit thinking, holy shit they are flying and thats alot of braking to be done before nasty T1....I remember freaking out on my bike at first to...WAY over braking on my first few laps. I can't imagine if I was doing 170+

My point from the beginning is that given a capable rider I'm sure the 10 will will not have a problem eating up 600's all day long. When the engineers at Kawi R&D designed that bike they did so with a strong spirit of the track in mind, not a lazy Sunday rider.

Another expierence, I remember at Summit being stuck behind a zx9r for a long time....given the fact that I would ride his ass every turn...then he would gun it on the straights leaving me in the dust only to have to overbrake to avoid hitting him in a turn. Ron im sure a 10r will not have a problem eating up the 600's but if you put an expierenced rider on the 600 and first day track rider on the 10r you get different results.

Also in your case even though you're running a liter bike you can also rely on excellent engine braking as well.

The engine is not a brake :)



Now that I have been able to put my thoughts on this here. Let me get straight to the point.

OK, I am not an expert, but let's define "to brake more". Is it "to brake harder"? or "to brake more often"?
I don't see any problems with braking harder, if your brakes can handle it.

As far as I know corner exits is the biggest problem for liter bike riders. Too much power with no or very little throttle handling experience can be very dangerous.

CoolerBig: I really think you are overlooking this whole idea we are trying to put forth to you. The reason we are trying to suggest purchasing a 600 is to become familiar with the whole track thing first. Trust me as soon as you get on the grid you will be shitting your pants, then you have to worry about the power of a liter, doing this and making sure not to do that. It gets hairy.

You can be a street wonder, and come to the track and get your ass handed to you...even twice in one day.

Do it the smart way and listen to some of these people.

[High_Revs_17]

if you put an expierenced rider on the 600 and first day track rider on the 10r you get different results.

The engine is not a brake :)

Of course Christopher. ;)

It's true that in his case he would be better off starting out on a 600 for the track...but that's an entirely different subject regarding the 10 being overkill on the track in general.

[Kennedy]

Of course Christopher. ;)

It's true that in his case he would be better off starting out on a 600 for the track...but that's an entirely different subject regarding the 10 being overkill on the track in general.


Agreed, the 10 could be overkill for a rider, but never for a track, well maybe east.......

Look at the MotoGP they are looking to downsize their power....

[High_Revs_17]

Agreed, the 10 could be overkill for a rider, but never for a track

Look at the MotoGP they are looking to downsize their power....

Exactly, that was my entire point in a nutshell before I was berated.

Yeah well how much faster do those crazy mofos wanna go?! :crazy:

[ffejtable]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what I was refering to regarding the overall performance of the 10. It's a total package that has the power of a liter bike which handles like a 600. More power can be compensated with larger/better brakes & lines, you guys should know this, being you've actually been to the track.



You're speaking of rider ability not bike ability regarding white & red groups, doesn't seem to be much mention of this in Blue or GP. You don't see pros making many mistakes on liter bikes, why? cuz they know how to ride the bike.

My point from the beginning is that given a capable rider I'm sure the 10 will will not have a problem eating up 600's all day long. When the engineers at Kawi R&D designed that bike they did so with a strong spirit of the track in mind, not a lazy Sunday rider.

You are leaving out the most simlpe and basic fact here... The guy in question is new to the track, and this is exactly the point we are trying to make. Nobody here is going to argue that the 10r is a capable bike, but thats with an experienced and capable rider.

When people ask for recommendations for a first bike, general consensus here is to get a 600 or smaller... Why would that be any different for the track? In fact our advice for the street is just that much more imoprtant on the track where you are more likely to push the bike to its limits.

The 600 is a much better bike on the track to learn on, mostly because it is a hell of a lot more forgiving. Not that you cant screw up on a 600, but its just THAT much easier to do on a 1000... Spinning the rear, entering a turn too fast, etc, etc...

[Cakes206]

Again, I can't really comment on this, since I've never been on the track.
Which is the exact reason why we're here...to help give everyone constructive advise based on our experiences. Like the 'ol saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but ya can't make it drink.


Let me ask you a question... Are you trying to say that there is a logical limit in power output on the track? And the 600 bike is doing much better with its power/weight ratio? Well, why would pro motoGP guys race something 240HP/320lbs dry? If there is a 120 HP reasonable limit then why would anyone want to race more powerful bikes?? If 120 HP bikes do better on the track, then they should choose them over 240 HP. It seems to me that rider's skills make that difference. And if you pass those liter bikes at the corners, in my opinion, that only means that you are a better rider...

Again, comparing MotoGP to track day riding isn't even remotely close. MotoGP race tracks are huuuge with tooons of run off. They're also riding on $1,000,000 machines, their braking systems alone are probly worth more than your and my bike total worth combined. Next, mentality...Rossi, Melandri, and everyone else are on a whole differnt level of I don't even know what...they're insane, lol. These guys are hitting speeds upward 220+ mph on some tracks, there is no way they can do that with 120hp. And because of this, MotoGP is changing its rules, starting with cutting engine size to 800cc.


And if you pass those liter bikes at the corners, in my opinion, that only means that you are a better rider...

Not necessarily. It also means the bike is capable of doing certain things at certain times differently than another bike. For example, as soon as I hit the apex of a turn(or even a split second right before) I can go FULL throttle and just launch forward(this is one of the characteristics of an sv650 with any rider), whereas if I did that with a liter bike, I'd mostlikely spin up the rear and getting an upclose look at the pavement real qwik.

[Gear Dog]

Well I've never been on a track with a bike but have in a car. The rule of thumb has always been hone the skills then go for more HP. As stated earlier the mistakes will only be amplified on a bigger bike. It's like a newbie starting on a liter bike. Yeah it can be done, but the consequences are much greater than learing on a 500. Since you aren't concerned about the cash, pick up a 600 already set up for the track.
The season is over you should be able to find something out there.
If it doesn't suit you you can always upgrade later.

As for the ice skate theory I think that will be the case with street/track acalmation as well.

[Ant]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what I was refering to regarding the overall performance of the 10. It's a total package that has the power of a liter bike which handles like a 600. More power can be compensated with larger/better brakes & lines, you guys should know this, being you've actually been to the track.



You're speaking of rider ability not bike ability regarding white & red groups, doesn't seem to be much mention of this in Blue or GP. You don't see pros making many mistakes on liter bikes, why? cuz they know how to ride the bike.

My point from the beginning is that given a capable rider I'm sure the 10 will will not have a problem eating up 600's all day long. When the engineers at Kawi R&D designed that bike they did so with a strong spirit of the track in mind, not a lazy Sunday rider.

I was a pretty capable Blue Group rider and guys on 600's would kick my ass all day long. A liter bike on the track is really hard to ride. Even on big, fast tracks like Summit Main. What most people don't realize is that they build speed so fast, you really have no idea until you are coming up on the braking markers. You seem to offer a lot of advice on this yet you have never ridden on the track nor a literbike for that matter.

[Ant]

Agreed, the 10 could be overkill for a rider, but never for a track, well maybe east.......

Look at the MotoGP they are looking to downsize their power....

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. Did you ever notice that the track record on a 750 at Summit Main is only like a few tenths faster then the fastest times on a 600?

[carl_g]

I was a pretty capable Blue Group rider and guys on 600's would kick my ass all day long. A liter bike on the track is really hard to ride. Even on big, fast tracks like Summit Main. What most people don't realize is that they build speed so fast, you really have no idea until you are coming up on the braking markers. You seem to offer a lot of advice on this yet you have never ridden on the track nor a literbike for that matter.

dude...leave him alone he read about this in cycle world. :ohmygod:

[Vin]

http://208.195.236.35/media/popcorn5nu.jpg

[CoolerBig]

I can't agree more here with you cakes, Unless you are one of the hayden brothers you can kiss the factory perfomance "gains" out the window. And as you know horsepower means nothing except for the straight away and even then the more corner speed you have the better drive you will get out of the corner...10 feet on the gas earlier can give you a couple of fractions of a second to your lap time and that = winning races.

I as well was watching those guys at the GP moto race going down summit thinking, holy shit they are flying and thats alot of braking to be done before nasty T1....I remember freaking out on my bike at first to...WAY over braking on my first few laps. I can't imagine if I was doing 170+



Another expierence, I remember at Summit being stuck behind a zx9r for a long time....given the fact that I would ride his ass every turn...then he would gun it on the straights leaving me in the dust only to have to overbrake to avoid hitting him in a turn. Ron im sure a 10r will not have a problem eating up the 600's but if you put an expierenced rider on the 600 and first day track rider on the 10r you get different results.



The engine is not a brake :)



Now that I have been able to put my thoughts on this here. Let me get straight to the point.



CoolerBig: I really think you are overlooking this whole idea we are trying to put forth to you. The reason we are trying to suggest purchasing a 600 is to become familiar with the whole track thing first. Trust me as soon as you get on the grid you will be shitting your pants, then you have to worry about the power of a liter, doing this and making sure not to do that. It gets hairy.

You can be a street wonder, and come to the track and get your ass handed to you...even twice in one day.

Do it the smart way and listen to some of these people.

Why can't I become familiar with the whole thing riding 10? That's what I don't understand. That's what they told me when I was buying my first bike - go with some kind of shitty machine to start with. You know what I think? It's in your head. And if you did shit in your pants it doesn't mean that all others do.

And yes, of course...If you put an experienced rider on 600 and a newcomer on a liter bike, the matter of fact you WILL get different results. But this is what I was talking about in my previous post. My point is: It's not what you ride, it is how you ride.

[CoolerBig]

dude...leave him alone he read about this in cycle world. :ohmygod:
Well, if you're talking about me, then you are not correct on this one. I've read books, not cycle world. Please do judge people...it can be very offensive.

[Ant]

Why can't I become familiar with the whole thing riding 10? That's what I don't understand. That's what they told me when I was buying my first bike - go with some kind of shitty machine to start with. You know what I think? It's in your head. And if you did shit in your pants it doesn't mean that all others do.

And yes, of course...If you put an experienced rifer on 600 and newcomer on a liter bike, the matter of fact you WILL get different results. But this is what I was talking in my precious post. My point is: It's not what you ride, it is how you ride.

And I'm telling you it's easier to learn on a smaller bike at the track. I took the same route you did and I'm speaking from experience.

[FigNewTon]

Well, if you're talking about me, then you are not correct on this one. I've read books, not cycle world. Please do judge people...it can be very offensive.
Ism was not referring to you nor was his comment meant to be offensive in any way.

And I'm telling you it's easier to learn on a smaller bike at the track. I took the same route you did and I'm speaking from experience.
Ant is a very good rider with an ample amount of track time under his belt. You may want to listen to what he has to say and give it some serious thought.

[CoolerBig]

Guys! Thanks a lot for your feedback. I really appreciate it. It's a lot of information. A lot of it makes sense.

[CoolerBig]

Ism was not referring to you nor was his comment meant to be offensive in any way.


Ant is a very good rider with an ample amount of track time under his belt. You may want to listen to what he has to say and give it some serious thought.

ok, sounds very reasonable to me. I am considering getting a 600 to start with, and see if I ever want to switch to a litter bike on the track. :)

[Vin]

Guys! Thanks a lot for your feedback. I really appreciate it. It's a lot of information. A lot of it makes sense.

Hey man, it's a pretty good conversation, and it didn't get out of hand. Hope to see you out there next year!

[FigNewTon]

ok, sounds very reasonable to me. I am considering getting a 600 to start with, and see if I ever want to switch to a litter bike on the track. :)
Ultimately it is your decision and yours alone. All these guys would help and support you either way. Hope to see you out there soon!

[carl_g]

Well, if you're talking about me, then you are not correct on this one. I've read books, not cycle world. Please do judge people...it can be very offensive.
No I was busting high-revs' balls.

[Kennedy]

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. Did you ever notice that the track record on a 750 at Summit Main is only like a few tenths faster then the fastest times on a 600?

I was just assuming ...and you know what they say about people who ASSume :lol:

[JasonB]

I have a liter bike and i want a 600 for the track, just cant afford it. Cant role on the throttle as hard on the liter bike as you can on a 600 coming out of a turn.

[CoolerBig]

Since you guys are so knowledgeable in this area...Can you tell me where I can get a race ready 600 bike. A couple of good places would be nice

[Vin]

Since you guys are so knowledgeable in this area...Can you tell me where I can get a race ready 600 bike. A couple of good places would be nice
wera.com (http://forums.13x.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=48)
NESBA (http://www.nesba.com/TrackTalk/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Motorcycles&number=4&DaysPrune=1000&LastLogin=)

[CoolerBig]

wera.com (http://forums.13x.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=48)
NESBA (http://www.nesba.com/TrackTalk/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Motorcycles&number=4&DaysPrune=1000&LastLogin=)
I looked there. Couldn't find any sections "Bikes for sale" :cries:

[Vin]

I looked there. Couldn't find any sections "Bikes for sale" :cries:

The links I posted are direct links to the Bikes for Sale forums.

[soda7o]

So do I get to still be on the team if I downgrade from a 1000 to a 750. I even promise I will make sure it doesnt leak and will wash it once in a while :lol:

Tom


i hope thats not a stabat me.. if it i soh well youare much bigger thname cant fight you ( but i am an internet tough guy so watch out)

[CoolerBig]

The links I posted are direct links to the Bikes for Sale forums.

Thanks a lot!

[~Donna~]

[QUOTE=jimmy]:wow: Did you hit the lottery? :lol:
QUOTE]

Let's put it this way... I like riding a lot. I don't care how much I spend on something that I like. I don't go to clubs/restaurants. I don't drink/smoke. Think about it this way: People , spend $100-250 a weekend going to stinky, noisy clubs...Well, I add another 50-100 and I am on the track. Much more fun for me. :nod2:

You be suprised how much the track days actually add up and can make a weekend of partying look very inexpensive. Depending on where you will be doing the track day/weekend will determine hotel costs and travel expenses in addition to the actual track expenses themselves. ;) :biggthump that you don't go to stinky noisy clubs and that you don't smoke or drink.... the track is a more worthwhile investment.

[duc748pilot]

an engine is totally a brake. dipshit. lol unless your a pot smoker like carl...oh wait....two smoker....ahhh nevermind

[carl_g]

an engine is totally a brake. dipshit. lol unless your a pot smoker like carl...oh wait....two smoker....ahhh nevermind
Hey leave me out of this! :flip:

[Jimmy]

Why can't I become familiar with the whole thing riding 10? That's what I don't understand.
I think the problem with begining on an inline liter bike is that people tend to use it as a crutch. Hauling ass down the straights to keep up only to brake hard and crawl through the turns. I'm not saying this will be you but it's very common and quite annoying. In my opinion you'll become a better rider on a bike with less power.

As for the ZX10 being overkill for the track...That was meant for trackday riders not professional racers.

[CoolerBig]

[QUOTE=CoolerBig]

You be suprised how much the track days actually add up and can make a weekend of partying look very inexpensive. Depending on where you will be doing the track day/weekend will determine hotel costs and travel expenses in addition to the actual track expenses themselves. ;) :biggthump that you don't go to stinky noisy clubs and that you don't smoke or drink.... the track is a more worthwhile investment.
I can definitely handle this. Money is not an issue in this case...

[CoolerBig]

I think the problem with begining on an inline liter bike is that people tend to use it as a crutch. Hauling ass down the straights to keep up only to brake hard and crawl through the turns. I'm not saying this will be you but it's very common and quite annoying. In my opinion you'll become a better rider on a bike with less power.

As for the ZX10 being overkill for the track...That was meant for trackday riders not professional racers.

I understand that. What I was saying is that we are all different. For instance...A lot of people say that a liter bike is too powerful to learn on. Well, again, it depends on the person. If you read and experiment...You will learn how to handle that bike. I started on a liter bike. I am not saying that I am very fast. I am not. But I have 6500 miles and absolutely no crashes; never dropped the bike. You get used to that power. You explore your bike step by step. You will be just fine. Of course, if you're fucked up on the brain and want to show off, it WILL punish you. I really don't think that if you want to learn how to drive you have to start with a shitty, old car and move up. If you have patience and intelligence to read and learn, you can do very well on any car. But if the person is fucked up, then he can get killed riding a bicycle. I am going to try both 600 and the liter bike. ;)

[Jimmy]

I am going to try both 600 and the liter bike. ;)
:biggthump

One thing I do recommend...do you first trackday with Team Pro-Motion. It's a great club. Very beginner friendly.

http://www.teampromotion.com/tpm.php

[High_Revs_17]

I am going to try both 600 and the liter bike. ;)

Good idea, being money is no object for you go for it. Some of the people here have ADD & Dislexia so their limited reading ability kept them from understanding what I was saying.

You have a great bike that's track worthy, but a 600 would be much easier for you to use on the track as a newbie, the 1000 will be harder. If you have patience like you said your skill will increase and maybe you'll be more comfortable on the 10 at a later date.

What the trackies failed to mention as well is that it's not about getting passed or passing, it's not about lap times, cuz in the end doing track days isn't about racing, it's about you having a great time on your bike and riding to your ability, not to the ability of others...if you want to race then quit trackdays and pick up a racing license.

Maybe I should've done a trackday last year so they wouldn't have anything to say...but don't ask me cuz what the hell do I know. LOL

[Cakes206]

:biggthump

One thing I do recommend...do you first trackday with Team Pro-Motion. It's a great club. Very beginner friendly.

http://www.teampromotion.com/tpm.php

+1 Take their ART Basic Class (http://www.teampromotion.com/tpm.php?page_id=art_basic)...it's actually a requirement for those who never rode the track before.

What the trackies failed to mention as well is that it's not about getting passed or passing, it's not about lap times, cuz in the end doing track days isn't about racing, it's about you having a great time on your bike and riding to your ability, not to the ability of others.

You're right, track days aren't a race, but lets face it, it almost ends up being one, cause no mtter what, you're gonna wanna jockey for position, its just the way it is. At the same time, I expct the person behind or on the side of me to have total control at all times...someone runs into me because they lose control of their power and theres gonna be a problem...yea shit happens but they best control themselves...let bad5k1000 tell the story about what happened to him at Beaver...Gallo and the crew saw the whole thing, after the session Gallo ripped off the guy's "Red" sticker and made him sit out a session because he couldn't control his power and almost caused a naaasty altercation at one of the fastest parts of the track...cause Chris to run right off the track well into the triple digits...how he saved it he still doesn't know, lol. But yes, technically we're all out there for fun.

[CoolerBig]

:biggthump

One thing I do recommend...do you first trackday with Team Pro-Motion. It's a great club. Very beginner friendly.

http://www.teampromotion.com/tpm.php

Yes, a lot of people told me about this club. Seems to me this one is very popular.
Thank you very much for your feedback.

[tommymac]

i hope thats not a stabat me.. if it i soh well youare much bigger thname cant fight you ( but i am an internet tough guy so watch out)

Not at all. While the TL is a fun bike to ride a gsxr 750 would better suit me. Good power, lighter and better handling than my TL.

And dont forget about my pythons :LOL:

Tom

[CBRBob]

:biggthump
One thing I do recommend...do you first trackday with Team Pro-Motion. It's a great club. Very beginner friendly.
http://www.teampromotion.com/tpm.php

Well I seem to remember reading on some other site how fast some of its 'non-track' riding members were. Then someone arranged a dozen of them to come to the track. All sorts of bikes. ALL had a great time despite some running off the track(I thought one guy who stopped by a female corner worker was trying to get her number) and some realizing that they can ride 150hp on a track slowly(comparatively) and still have fun!

Relax about that bike you have. If you can have 2 bikes, great. If not, great, you can still ride it!

[Qetesh]

I started on a liter bike. I am not saying that I am very fast. I am not. But I have 6500 miles and absolutely no crashes; never dropped the bike. You get used to that power. You explore your bike step by step. You will be just fine.

Is anyone else alarmed by this comment? 6500 miles and never dropping your bike does not make you a seasoned rider! It makes you a new rider still learning the sport.

I think it's great that you want to get on the track, regardless what organization you choose to join, but I hope you come back from the experience humbled and grounded. I also hope you will be able to come back after your first track day experience and re-read this thread. It might be a little easier to understand what everyone is saying and the outpouring of care and concern we all have for you.

Money means nothing if you're not smart ;)

Good luck at the track next year and I hope you do well.

[carl_g]

This is the perfect dual purpose bike. It comes with 2 sets of wheels so you can switch from track to dirt no problemo! :jam2:

http://www.ktm-infosystem.com/incontent/medien/ma_49/980ma.jpg

[Cakes206]

Is anyone else alarmed by this comment? 6500 miles and never dropping your bike does not make you a seasoned rider! It makes you a new rider still learning the sport.

+1 pi

[Vin]

Conversely, my first crash happened at the track. :lol:

[Cakes206]

Conversely, my first crash happened at the track. :lol:

Mine too :lol:

[AfricanBootyScratcher]

originally, didn't you ask about switching setups back and forth?
so in an effort to answer your original question............
I used to be able to swap my bike over in under two hours, it's an 01 GSXR600. this includes, full bodywork, fairing stay, and wheels, suspension/chassis setup, etc...
this year, about half way through the season, I started doing more days and just got sick of it. I now have an old cb650 nighthawk and a superhawk for the street, so the gsxr just stays in track form.

and to get into what this thing spawned into, if you already have that ZX10, by all means bring it to the track! ride what you got. on the other hand if you were looking to get a bike I would certainly NOT recomend that machine, but the fact remains that you ALREADY have it, so bring it. plus being on the track will teach you so much about that machine. If you do get another machine, don't worry about the "ice skate phenomena" you were worried about. It don't matter, your body and brain will know the difference. Hell I rode the exact same machine very differently track vs. street!

[pillaka]

i lost count of how many times i've crashed

[CoolerBig]

Is anyone else alarmed by this comment? 6500 miles and never dropping your bike does not make you a seasoned rider! It makes you a new rider still learning the sport.

I think it's great that you want to get on the track, regardless what organization you choose to join, but I hope you come back from the experience humbled and grounded. I also hope you will be able to come back after your first track day experience and re-read this thread. It might be a little easier to understand what everyone is saying and the outpouring of care and concern we all have for you.

Money means nothing if you're not smart ;)

Good luck at the track next year and I hope you do well.

Well, there is only one comment I would like to leave here...
You can not make money (I mean make, not win money), if you are NOT smart. This is the reality. And again...I would like to mention it to you: Please do not think that everyone is the same. This assumption is wrong.

[CoolerBig]

Conversely, my first crash happened at the track. :lol:
I was not saying that I WILL do good on the track. All I was saying is that a lot of people told me that if I start on a liter bike I WILL DROP IT. And not even once...Most likely within my first 3,000 miles. Well, it didn't happen. And I am NOT claiming that it won't happen. I am NOT claiming that I will do excellent on the track. I am not claiming that I WON'T crash on the track. All I am saying is that EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. And you can not assume that everyone will experience the same problem as some one else did. Just because we have different genetics, intelligence level, experience, knowledge...etc.

[Vin]

I was not saying that I WILL do good on the track. All I was saying is that a lot of people told me that if I start on a liter bike I WILL DROP IT. And not even once...Most likely within my first 3,000 miles. Well, it didn't happen. And I am NOT claiming that it won't happen. I am NOT claiming that I will do excellent on the track. I am not claiming that I WON'T crash on the track. All I am saying is that EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. And you can not assume that everyone will experience the same problem as some one else did. Just because we have different genetics, intelligence level, experience, knowledge...etc.

Time out -- I didn't say YOU WOULD CRASH. All I said is MY FIRST CRASH happened at the track... read again, man. Jesus.

I make a joke about MYSELF and YOU get defensive. I could care less what you ride on the street or on the track, how many times you've crashed or how many miles you've ridden with or without getting hurt. Ride to have fun, ride to race, ride to do whatever you'd like. The track is fun, you'll enjoy it.

I'm done with this thread. Enjoy!

[CoolerBig]

originally, didn't you ask about switching setups back and forth?
so in an effort to answer your original question............
I used to be able to swap my bike over in under two hours, it's an 01 GSXR600. this includes, full bodywork, fairing stay, and wheels, suspension/chassis setup, etc...
this year, about half way through the season, I started doing more days and just got sick of it. I now have an old cb650 nighthawk and a superhawk for the street, so the gsxr just stays in track form.

and to get into what this thing spawned into, if you already have that ZX10, by all means bring it to the track! ride what you got. on the other hand if you were looking to get a bike I would certainly NOT recomend that machine, but the fact remains that you ALREADY have it, so bring it. plus being on the track will teach you so much about that machine. If you do get another machine, don't worry about the "ice skate phenomena" you were worried about. It don't matter, your body and brain will know the difference. Hell I rode the exact same machine very differently track vs. street!

I might be able to do that within 3 hours :) But it is too much pain...So, I figured I better buy a track bike...
[plus being on the track will teach you so much about that machine.]
This is one of the best arguments in this whole discussion! Thank you!
This is why I am going to try both(of course, if I buy another bike by that time).

[CoolerBig]

Time out -- I didn't say YOU WOULD CRASH. All I said is MY FIRST CRASH happened at the track... read again, man. Jesus.

I make a joke about MYSELF and YOU get defensive. I could care less what you ride on the street or on the track, how many times you've crashed or how many miles you've ridden with or without getting hurt. Ride to have fun, ride to race, ride to do whatever you'd like. The track is fun, you'll enjoy it.

I'm done with this thread. Enjoy!
I am sorry, I didnt mean to be offensive.

[High_Revs_17]

I said is MY FIRST CRASH happened at the track

And my first crash happened 9 years later :lol:......yur gettin too fast fur yur hardware, time fur highmounts, yur draggin yur shit too much Vin! :P

[AfricanBootyScratcher]

I might be able to do that within 3 hours :) But it is too much pain...So, I figured I better buy a track bike...
[plus being on the track will teach you so much about that machine.]
This is one of the best arguments in this whole discussion! Thank you!
This is why I am going to try both(of course, if I buy another bike by that time).
Don't let not buying another bike stop you from going to the track, bring what you have. just tape it up and stuff! make sure you like it (you will) then you can worry about getting another bike later.

[Anubis]

Bloody hell, i miss a few days and this thread goes crazy......... To get back to the original question, i use my bike for both. and have done quite a few trackdays this year, until winter came i didn`t have a problem. I left my bike in track `clothing` and just rode it like that, it`s only now winter`s come and it goes dark at 4pm and light at 8.30am that i`ve had to consider what to do. For the time being i`m using the car for work :banghead: cos it`ll take me 2 hours to road-if-i the bike. But hey its worthit for me only 2 months to go and i`ll be back riding road again.

P.s just done a trackday today.

[Qetesh]

Well, there is only one comment I would like to leave here...
You can not make money (I mean make, not win money), if you are NOT smart. This is the reality. And again...I would like to mention it to you: Please do not think that everyone is the same. This assumption is wrong.

I take back everything I said...

I hope you learn the lesson, either way.

You posted that you wanted information regarding track days and bikes, blah blah blah...

There are so many people on this board, myself included, that are devoted to track days and the organizations they ride with. We all have enough time, experience and knowledge under our belts to be able to help a newbie like you make the right choices BEFORE you get there.

You don't seem to give a shit what we have to say or that we care about your safety and well being...so I hope your money will buy you some smarts and help you to lose the chip on your shoulder.

Good luck if you decide to stick it out with track days.

I'm so done with this thread :banghead:

[pillaka]

Anyone can ride any bike on any track. It all comes down to what you do inside your head and what transfers to your right wrist.

Once you up your pace, once you starting going faster, the fundamentals of track riding better be solid, because as the speed increases there is a lot less room for error.

Just think tetris, if you started off playing the game at level 15, would it be much fun as the blocks drop down real fast?

Learning the fundamentals comes from practice, experiance, and taking in knowledge from others, its just a matter of how fast you want to learn. Its a matter of confidence in yourself and your motorcycle. The fundamentals are the basic operations on a motorcycle, and doing these things takes up your attention. Spend to much attention concerning one aspect, you'll be lacking in others. Taking into consideration the most liter bikes outweigh a 600 by a couple pounds, coming out of turns a literbike is putting at least 50 more hp to the ground. You are managing 50% more power than a 600, so obviously some very fine adjustments have to be done with the throttle - for fear of lowsiding or worst highsiding. Fear keeps you from going faster, keeps you from learning. Bike with less HP has one less thing to worry about, therefor you can concentrate on everything else, braking, braking into turns, reference points, smoothness, lines, etc.

[FigNewTon]

Well said Pillaka